Boat internet system recommendations

[SilentOption]

Originally Posted by mystery

Did you mean to include a link?

No Sorry that's a thread title in this forum. It specifically relates to your question. I was wondering the same thing except specifically for offshore as far as I can get Line of Sight.



I saw the KVH LTE 1 antenna and someone added all the other alternatives to KVH. Most are signal enhancers that allow you to use your own wireless account.


KVH has a roaming service and requires you to subscribe to their service. In port clearly there is no reason for anything other than a system that enhances signals

[AKA-None]

You could use a cell booster from Wilson then use a phone for Wi-Fi over cellular

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

You could use a cell booster from Wilson then use a phone for Wi-Fi over cellular

Thats all we, and a lot of cruisers, have is a booster, a router, and a cellular modem. No need to get into complicated custom solutions, this is all off the shelf and inexpensive.

Has worked great for us for many years in remote areas with weak signal.

[TomNH]

Hi,

I've got a fairly cheap and simple system that might do what you want. There are two components: a teltonika RUT550 and a ubiquity bullet. The RUT550 is a 4G router with provision for 2 external antennae (I've one 20m+ up the rig with very fat low loss coax back to the box). It's 12v powered and has WiFi, 3 wired LAN ports and a wired WAN uplink. The firmware (managed through a web interface) lets you use the 4G as a backup to the WAN interface. I've yet to do it, but my plan is to rig the bullet on the WAN interface - currently I just use 4G, the bullet is a new purchase I've yet to integrate.

The only issue for you will be that the RUT550 is no longer made - there is a similar newer model with more features (full range at https://teltonika.lt). I can't recommend the Teltonika products highly enough. I've no connection with them. Ours has been simple to use, reliable and effective, and was very reasonably priced when compared with less capable 'marine' competitors.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by mystery

Hello!

Was hoping for some insight. Have read tons, overwhelmed by all the info. Prefer to build my own system.

I primarily use a cellular hotspot but there are some areas that it does not work and some areas where it does work during high tide but not during low tide when the boat is sitting 6-9 feet lower than it sits at high tide. In some of the areas where there is cellular limitations, there are outdoor hotspots available which I can get access to.

I am looking for a solution that automatically works between cellular and Wifi as Wan, can fail over to one another, or I can manually select which to use. I plan to mount an external omnidirectional antenna each for cellular and wifi outside. Another limitation is running cable from the antenna into the cabin would require 40-50 feet of cable which my understanding would degrade signal. I can possibly install the equipment outside at the base of the mast or under a seat that would lower that length down to 10-15 feet and any power/POE/ethernet runs could make up the remaining 35-40 feet.

My understanding is a lot of folks get one device to handle the cellular, router, local LAN/wireless, and the WiFi as Wan would be done on a separate device plugged into the cellular router. If there is an all-in-one solution that would be great but seems that using WiFi as Wan would limit the radio power/bandwidth if it has to do both Wan and Lan? I would also consider two separate "radio" type devices one for Cellular and one for WiFi that I could just run ethernet to the cabin and have a router/LAN WiFi there but it would need to be able to handle the two internet sources/failovers, etc.

Other considerations are while I do have AC power inside the cabin, I would need to run DC power to anything outside, and I prefer to use DC power for direct wire into my boat's DC system. POE to the devices outside/at the mast would be ideal because then I can just run 1-2 ethernet cables there but can also consider running DC power straight up there or tapping into something existing. If wiring directly into DC is there any sort of converter/regulator/protector that would be needed or can I wire straight into the battery perhaps with a simple fuse? On a boat battery power can vary from ~12 volts all the way to 14.5 volts or so...

Another concern I have is using just one antenna for cellular and one for WiFi. I see some routers consider the second cellular Aux/Diversity and many routers have multiple connections for the WiFi. Would I experience any major issues wither with signal or frying the radios if using only 1 of the 2 jacks for the external antennas and leaving the others open? I am looking at LTE/LTE-A Cat 6 modems. There does not seem to be any Band 14 support on anything that I have seen. I do see some mini routers/wifi radios that have a single antenna jack that I can consider for the wifi.

Any ways, hoping for some thoughts on a system. Hoping its not too complicated... thank you!

Where are you cruising? Why are you concerned with Band 14?

I recently posted a blog on the cellular options available for boats (here: https://www.sea-tech.com/2018/12/30/...e-for-my-boat/) You might take a look and see what is on the market that best fits your needs, then you might have a better idea of what you would want to build.

Specifically if you wanted to build it all yourself, you probably want some sort of industrial LTE OpenWRT router, and then add a WiFi Ethernet converter for the WiFi WAN portion. Depending on the WiFi device you can load OpenWRT on that as well. Install an appropriate MiniPCI Cellular modem (like a Sierra Wireless MC7455 or similar) inside the router and attach an external antenna.

The LTE modem has 2 cellular antenna ports, one primary, one aux. You must have an antenna on the main port, but the aux antenna is optional. It helps increase performance and range in some conditions, primarily for download speed, generally not upload.

WiFi can also use MIMO, dual antenna's depending on device. For inside the boat, using 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz WiFi with MIMO (two+ antennas) can help improve performance for the devices in the boat. Is it necessary? Not likely.

As far as MIMO WiFi for external remote WAN... If I was building it myself, I'd actually opt for two separate WiFi WAN devices attached to two different WAN ethernet ports on the router. Set up OpenWRT to load balance between the two, and connect each of them to two different WiFi APs, on different channels, if possible. Most of the WiFi Ethernet converters used for external WAN don't have MIMO features, but certainly you could find hardware that does.

All that said, while you noted you would prefer to build it yourself, your question doesn't make it clear whether you are technical by nature.. If you are, then OpenWRT on several pieces of equipment, as above, is likely fine. If you are not, then you might consider more off-the-shelf options like Peplink or Cradlepoint, or just getting one of the several cellular/wifi systems specifically targeted at boaters that make it very easy to use and get online.

[bradfordharley]

From the discussion so far, it does not appear that you have the background to build from scratch(networking, Linux, some light soldering) Feel free to correct if I’m wrong...
I would therefore go with something like an ubiquity for WiFi if you can get it(I generally can’t) which get great reviews, and maybe a home cell booster (just plan on replacing every other year or so).

I did my own from scratch which is a combination of a mikrotik router (low power and flexible input voltage) and a raspberry pi which is my openplotter system and general purpose router. Which joins my phone hotspot or external wireless to route from the ship network to the internet.

It only saved me a few hundred and has taken dozens of hours. I would buy off the shelf, but I enjoy tinkering....

[PJHoffnet]

Might suggest a visit to the Mobile Internet Resource Center. These folks are very knowledgeable - and offer great advice for mobile solutions for both RVs and Boats.https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

Where are you cruising? Why are you concerned with Band 14?

I recently posted a blog on the cellular options available for boats (here: https://www.sea-tech.com/2018/12/30/...e-for-my-boat/) You might take a look and see what is on the market that best fits your needs, then you might have a better idea of what you would want to build.

Specifically if you wanted to build it all yourself, you probably want some sort of industrial LTE OpenWRT router, and then add a WiFi Ethernet converter for the WiFi WAN portion. Depending on the WiFi device you can load OpenWRT on that as well. Install an appropriate MiniPCI Cellular modem (like a Sierra Wireless MC7455 or similar) inside the router and attach an external antenna.

The LTE modem has 2 cellular antenna ports, one primary, one aux. You must have an antenna on the main port, but the aux antenna is optional. It helps increase performance and range in some conditions, primarily for download speed, generally not upload.

WiFi can also use MIMO, dual antenna's depending on device. For inside the boat, using 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz WiFi with MIMO (two+ antennas) can help improve performance for the devices in the boat. Is it necessary? Not likely.

As far as MIMO WiFi for external remote WAN... If I was building it myself, I'd actually opt for two separate WiFi WAN devices attached to two different WAN ethernet ports on the router. Set up OpenWRT to load balance between the two, and connect each of them to two different WiFi APs, on different channels, if possible. Most of the WiFi Ethernet converters used for external WAN don't have MIMO features, but certainly you could find hardware that does.

All that said, while you noted you would prefer to build it yourself, your question doesn't make it clear whether you are technical by nature.. If you are, then OpenWRT on several pieces of equipment, as above, is likely fine. If you are not, then you might consider more off-the-shelf options like Peplink or Cradlepoint, or just getting one of the several cellular/wifi systems specifically targeted at boaters that make it very easy to use and get online.

Thanks for the insight. Is the Wave WiFi Rogue just a Ubiquiti bullet? Where do they get the metal stainless casing? Does Ubiquiti sell a bullet with the 1x14 thread or is that all custom made by Wave WiFi?

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by mystery

Thanks for the insight. Is the Wave WiFi Rogue just a Ubiquiti bullet? Where do they get the metal stainless casing? Does Ubiquiti sell a bullet with the 1x14 thread or is that all custom made by Wave WiFi?

It's similar to a bullet, but not the same. They are using a similar circuit board but it's not identical, and in fact they have more output power than the bullet does. And the Metal casing is custom. Ubiquiti makes their bullet unit for corporate campus networks and wireless ISPs. It's a great piece of hardware and their software is good, but it's not tailored to the boater/consumer. There are nuances that I don't like for boating use.. 1.) When you change the wifi network the bullet has to reboot. 2.) the bullet's AirOS doesn't support WEP encryption that is still used in some marinas. 3.) Ubiquiti is not selling their units for boaters and home users, so they don't supply 1"-14" mounts.

Rogue Pro and Reach, and Redport Halo units all use 1x14" threads for mounting. Those adapters are custom made by Wave and Redport respectively.

In any case, the Rogue Wave, Pro, and Reach all have Wave's super easy to use GUI, and the Pro and Reach models have optional dual-band versions to support 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz networks.

[CatNewBee]

I am looking at a Stella Doradus mobile repeater system for GSM, 3G, 4G and varios frequences. WiFi is not really an option, very few free hotspots, and you need to be quite close, mobile networks work up to 30nm from shore with a decent antenna on the mast. It works on 12V.

https://www.stelladoradus.com/produc...ter-for-ships/

[Boater3]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

It's similar to a bullet, but not the same. They are using a similar circuit board but it's not identical, and in fact they have more output power than the bullet does.

Hmm... I went through a ton of Google images and from the pics I saw, the Rogues all have the ubiquiti model #s next to the ethernet jack. So at one point they were definitely using Ubiquiti equipment. I just unfortunately could not find any pictures of where the jack is on the metal case (Rogue Pro or Pro dual-band). If someone has one and they can post a picture, that would be awesome. They definitely have the same shape and layout as the bullet. I was thinking they were using the bullet ip67 dual band but there were reports that was not compatible with bridge mode and could only connect to airmax equipment. That would've made sense because then they just fabricated a metal housing with 1x14 thread. I am wondering who is supplying them and if its possible to find on Alibaba or some website...

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I am looking at a Stella Doradus mobile repeater system for GSM, 3G, 4G and varios frequences. WiFi is not really an option, very few free hotspots, and you need to be quite close, mobile networks work up to 30nm from shore with a decent antenna on the mast. It works on 12V.

https://www.stelladoradus.com/produc...ter-for-ships/

This would be for European networks in general.. The problem with boosters in general is that they are generally North America or Europe or Asia, but not more than one of those. If you truly need global, you either need a three boosters, or a router with category 6 LTE-A modem, with an external antenna connected directly to the modem.

If you are in Euro market, the linked unit likely work fine, the kit that I offer on my own site is for North America market. Nikrans is another company that makes units for various markets, but again no single booster unit for all markets.

[CatNewBee]

For the WiFi part you may find this interesting...

http://www.bitstorm.com/bad-boy-xtreme-mj-kits/



It is a router in the antenna, connected by a RJ45 LAN cable with a POE injector and a repeater unit down below to create a WLAN hot spot, alternatively connect the wire to a switch to distribute to the LAN or directly to the computer.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by mystery

Hmm... I went through a ton of Google images and from the pics I saw, the Rogues all have the ubiquiti model #s next to the ethernet jack. So at one point they were definitely using Ubiquiti equipment. I just unfortunately could not find any pictures of where the jack is on the metal case (Rogue Pro or Pro dual-band). If someone has one and they can post a picture, that would be awesome. They definitely have the same shape and layout as the bullet. I was thinking they were using the bullet ip67 dual band but there were reports that was not compatible with bridge mode and could only connect to airmax equipment. That would've made sense because then they just fabricated a metal housing with 1x14 thread. I am wondering who is supplying them and if its possible to find on Alibaba or some website...

Yes, Wave did at one time OEM from Ubiquiti, but now they get their own board made. You can see their board in their own FCC filings. But remember that the key differences between these devices is not the hardware per-se (though there are some differences), but the software. And recently Ubiqiuti has started requiring signed software for their units, making installing 3rd party OS's more difficult.

Also note, that Atheros is the main supplier of the WiSOC and SOC's used in all these devices, and they provide the reference design, from which everyone has copied, Alfa, Ubiquiti, Wave, etc.. That's why they all look the same, because they all copied Atheros' free reference designs.

The Atheros chips, WiFi chips, etc used in these devices are all generally difference. Alfa produces their own boards from the reference, Redport OEMs the Alfa board and puts their own version of OpenWRT on it. Ubiquiti produces their own board from the reference and puts AirOS on it. Wave currently produces their own boards, also from the reference, and puts their own OS on it.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

This would be for European networks in general.. The problem with boosters in general is that they are generally North America or Europe or Asia, but not more than one of those. If you truly need global, you either need a three boosters, or a router with category 6 LTE-A modem, with an external antenna connected directly to the modem.

If you are in Euro market, the linked unit likely work fine, the kit that I offer on my own site is for North America market. Nikrans is another company that makes units for various markets, but again no single booster unit for all markets.

I am not sure, mobile phones can roam between asia, us, same frequencies I have done it several times on business trips, so will the repeater work too with my cellphone.

Of course not in CDMA networks, but my cellphone does not support it either.