Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-01-2018, 18:16   #76
Registered User
 
Three Sisters's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 470
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bermuda Forte View Post
Following- need to know what the OP finds and the solution.

Yes. Same here.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Rolls s-12.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	11.8 KB
ID:	163119
__________________

__________________
Three Sisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2018, 18:27   #77
Registered User
 
Three Sisters's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 470
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ip485 View Post
I have hardly used my house batteries off shore power since the whole bank was replaced. The new batteries are Rolls - so should be of very good quality, and about 1 year old.

I find running the DC system off just the batteries the volts drop very quickly. For example at 75% charge the volts read 11.6V under a load of 30 amps, and fall away further. If the load is reduced, it doesnt make much different to the volts. The volts are measured on the main panel and also on a BMV-501. The position is similiar when the gauge is showing 100% charge albeit the volts are just a little higher. At 75% the AIS trips out due to low voltage.

As soon as the charger is switched on the volts recover almost immediately.

My feeling is there is a poor contact somewhere. Could this explain what I am seeing?

I should have checked where the BMV-501 is measuring the volts (I didnt install this). It would be interesting to know which side of the main DC switch it is, in case there are any poor contacts in the switch. I have a main rotary switch for the DC power, and a main DC swith on the panel.

I would be very interested if anyone has any thoughts please?

My only thoughts would be if you are interested in receiving any warranty work to keep a thorough log. This would include the AIS tripping off, voltage readings, temperatures and such.

You've afforded yourself the luxury of having the system installed professionally so my thoughts would be to continue the troubleshooting in the same manner with a professional survey. Good Luck ! And do let us know the outcome.
__________________

__________________
Three Sisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2018, 20:19   #78
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 176
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailRocyPoint View Post
Stu is 100% right..... check the grounds! he directed me (NYSail)
Good luck!
We don't have enough information to be so certain of this. Perhaps it's an isolated ground system with no engine ground..
__________________
kenbo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2018, 21:25   #79
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: CS27
Posts: 1,777
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenbo View Post
We don't have enough information to be so certain of this. Perhaps it's an isolated ground system with no engine ground..
Grounds to loads and between batteries should certainly be checked, as well as all positive connections between batteries, to switch(es) and to loads.

Engine ground doesn't necessarily relate to the problem - it only would relate to engine starting and alternator output.
__________________
mitiempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2018, 21:36   #80
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Boat: Hylas 49, Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 110
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

I'm assuming you have checked the batteries? Most of the notes have talked about the charger, and those notes are perfectly reasonable, but you might want to see if your new batteries contained a lemon. If they are hooked together you could have a bad battery in the middle of the bank bringing them all down. You could test for this by isolating the batteries from the bank and testing them at rest. If lemon exists, it will show this way.
__________________
Rick & Bonnie
S/V Black Diamond - Hanse 575 #161
Portsmouth, RI
Black Diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2018, 13:24   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 76
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

I promised to report back for those who kindly contributed.

While the batteries have now yet to be removed it would seem the "professionals" who installed them believe one or more batteries have failed. I am not certain how they have reached that conclusion because I wasnt there at the time, but an hour and a half and lots of calculations resulted in that conclusion.

The next step is for all the batteries to come out.

I know that some will say be involved in the process and / or roll up your sleeves. However, while I am very happy to do so, the batteries were all supplied and fitted at considerable cost by professional marine electricians so as you can imagine I am reluctant to do what someone else has been paid to do.

No doubt more will come to light when the batteries are all out and the manufacturers have them back. The batteries are all Rolls AGMs.
__________________
Ip485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2018, 19:04   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,997
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Cryin' shame.

I can certainly understand you not wanting to get in the middle of the labour side.

But IMO wrt the design, gear selection and installation process, professionals are paid to educate and advise me as the customer, and help me to make the decisions.

I would learn enough to check everything, test and verify, and understand how to monitor with trusted tools, accurate ammeter and DMM, so any future problems can be prevented.

IOW never just trust them to do it right any more than necessary, know enough to DIY even if you aren't actually going to.
__________________
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2018, 20:10   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Marina Adelaide - off the hard standing at last
Boat: Pearson 365 'ZAYA'
Posts: 349
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post

know enough to DIY even if you aren't actually going to
kind of the rule of life on a boat ..
__________________
'give what you get, then get gone'
ZULU40 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 03:10   #84
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 76
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

John61ct - I could not agree more. I can turn my hand to most things and am pretty comfortable with electronics. That said, this thread has made me realise that there were some aspects of battery management that was fundamentally lacking; I am very grateful for certain of the explanations. Thank you all.

I remain interested to see when the batteries come out what the final conclusion is.
__________________
Ip485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 08:36   #85
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,967
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

The only way they are gong to be able to determine the health of the batteries is by a capacity check, there is no other way.
I would become very proactive in the Warranty procedure, otherwise Im betting your buying another set from the same folks.
Id also bet that with respect, you murdered your bank, not intentionally of course, yet that is what happens to most banks, Achilles Heel of an AGM bank is they are very intolerant of abuse.

If you end up having to eat this, I strongly recommend that if you chose to remain with an AGM bank, you go with Lifeline. They no longer produce any battery that is not an AGM, it is their specialty.
I suspicion that while Rolls is an exceptional brand, the Cadillac of batteries if you will, that maybe they are having the AGM batteries built for them, and they may not be up to Rolls level of quality.
However that is just a suspicion.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 08:42   #86
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,995
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

A question thats been nagging at me is this.

Why spend so much on a large battery bank for a boat that spends its whole life tied to shore power?

If you have cruising plans, and youve got a leave date 2-3 years in the future why not install a small bank sufficient for day sails, then 2-3 months before heading out purchase the cruising bank?

Otherwise it would seem to me your letting the clock expire on an expensive battery bank and not getting the benefit of using them.
__________________
Sailmonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 08:54   #87
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,997
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
while Rolls is an exceptional brand, the Cadillac of batteries if you will, that maybe they are having the AGM batteries built for them
They are definitely Chinese, I believe Full River.

While it would be better if the built their own local production facility, it is likely Rolls is imposing tight specs and rigorous QA verification processes to protect their reputation.

Just as Apple and hundreds of brand owners do to get top-notch results out of Chinese OEMs.

But we haven't get decades of real-life reports about longevity in real life conditions yet, just like Trojan's AGMs, we're relying on the company's reputation.

Besides Lifeline, Odyssey also is a stellar AGM vendor, and Northstar. Firefly Oasis for PSOC situations.
__________________
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 08:56   #88
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,967
Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

IP 485 is a pretty big boat, and Id bet has a lot of modern conveniences, for a complex Boat that size an 800 AH bank isnt all that large.
Heck Im a 660 AH bank, and honestly wish I had 1000 AH.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 09:03   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,289
Re: Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
IP 485 is a pretty big boat, and Id bet has a lot of modern conveniences, for a complex Boat that size an 800 AH bank isnt all that large.
Heck Im a 660 AH bank, and honestly wish I had 1000 AH.
The drawback to large battery banks in my opinion is being able to recharge them to 100% or close on an irregular basis. I much prefer a mid sized bank that I can recharge with solar everyday but that requires that your boat is very energy efficient.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 09:16   #90
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,967
Battery problem thoughts much appreciated!

I dont see as long as your charge source is sized correctly that a larger bank would take more time to charge, mine takes over five hours and I have more charger than it will accept at my starting SOC.
Being often tied to shorepower is the textbook case for an AGM bank, you can partial charge once or twice during a weekend, then plug in and if your charger can be adjusted to end absorption based on acceptance amps, really get an honest 100% full charge.
His bank ought to last at least five years, and that is I believe pessimistic.
Efficiency often means doing without, and if I had a 485, Im not doing without.
Sort of like I doubt people that have a Bentley worry about fuel mileage.
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feedback/Ideas welcome, in fact very much appreciated :) Captain Rob Roy Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 10 16-05-2016 15:53
Xantrex Monitor Problem OR Battery bank problem? svstrider Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 26-12-2011 21:08
Battery-Charging Regulator Problem ? MasterVolt Problem ? RJV Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 18 06-11-2011 23:53
36' Endeavour G-Force Sport Cat - Comments and Thoughts Appreciated! Rolf the Rotten Multihull Sailboats 0 26-10-2010 12:21
Draft depth for Caribean Islands - how much is too much? theloneoux General Sailing Forum 11 07-08-2005 14:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.