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Old 15-05-2013, 13:07   #31
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Originally Posted by CAELESTIS View Post
Two months or so ago, I was in the San Diego West Marine. The salesman was waiting on two US Navy submariners while I waited. They were buying some cables. I struck up a conversation with them and asked what kind of radar they have (Los Angeles class fast attack subs). Simrad 4G, right off the shelf.
Are you sure? It looks different:
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Old 15-05-2013, 13:22   #32
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Ah, here are the specs: http://military-submarines.com/subma...ass-submarine/

It says: Navigation and launching radar Sperry BPS-15H/16
Good old European gear
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Old 15-05-2013, 13:35   #33
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Ah, here are the specs: Military Submarines Los Angeles Class Submarine » Military Submarines

It says: Navigation and launching radar Sperry BPS-15H/16
Good old European gear
Uh, sorry, Sperry is Northrup-Grumman, a pillar of the US military-industrial complex. Born in the USA, spawn of the Cold War, nothing zeuropean about it. That radar, designed in the 1980's, is 35kW and costs $147,000. I wouldn't actually be completely surprised if they use a cheap recreational radar for close-in work. The radar in your photo is definitely no Sperry 35kW job.
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Old 15-05-2013, 14:59   #34
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

100% Sure. Call the general manager at the store (Dusty) and ask him.
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Old 15-05-2013, 18:46   #35
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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Uh, sorry, Sperry is Northrup-Grumman, a pillar of the US military-industrial complex. Born in the USA, spawn of the Cold War, nothing zeuropean about it. That radar, designed in the 1980's, is 35kW and costs $147,000. I wouldn't actually be completely surprised if they use a cheap recreational radar for close-in work. The radar in your photo is definitely no Sperry 35kW job.
Right. Except that this Northrup Grumman acquisition happened after 2000 I think. These radars come from Racal Decca, which is now part of Sperry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decca_Radar
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Old 15-05-2013, 19:12   #36
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I can see those yankee braincells working: 10 meters that must be what, 30 feet and before we know it, it has become 30 meters
How many sillimetres in a foot anyway? I know, I know, europeans use the metric system to confuse the fair sex about size..... that mst be it!
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Old 16-05-2013, 00:00   #37
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Right. Except that this Northrup Grumman acquisition happened after 2000 I think. These radars come from Racal Decca, which is now part of Sperry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decca_Radar
Sorry again, but those radars were designed in the 1980's, and were made by Sperry in Charlottesville, VA, USA, long before the Decca acquisition. The Los Angeles class subs were originally supplied with AN/BPS-5 radar made by Lockheed. These started to be replaced by the AN/BPS-15 radars made by Sperry in the late 1980's.

See: AN/BPS Series Radars

Decca had its own submarine radar, the AA/Lucy, which was a very different design, and which was never fitted to the Los Angeles class as far as I know.

I'm sure after the Decca acquisition a lot of Decca expertise and knowledge was used in the updating of these radars, which are apparently still produced today, but they are an old American design. Altogether, Decca, while the most famous of military radar companies (they made the radars used to such good effect at D-Day), was not at all the only Western naval radar maker. Raytheon made a lot of them, as did Sperry, Fairchild, and other American companies, having nothing to do with Decca.

See: The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 - Google Books


As to the alleged use of cheap recreational radars on nuclear attack subs -- it sounds bizarre to me, but the photo you posted clearly shows a recreational-type radome, very different from the 35kW open array BPS15/16. Budget pressures, perhaps?
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Old 16-05-2013, 03:23   #38
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

I dont think you can determine what that is from that picture,

dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 04:06   #39
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Here's a picture showing the Sperry:

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Old 16-05-2013, 05:29   #40
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I dont think you can determine what that is from that picture,

dave
The first photo Nick posted clearly shows a radome of some type, not open array. Maybe there are some military radomes in the same form as recreational ones, but I've never heard of them.

The second photo Nick posted shows a radar which is also not the AN/BPS. Here is what the AN/BPS looks like:

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AN/BPS-15


Nick's second photo shows what looks, to me, like a Raymarine recreational open array radar, with the bulb at the base, like this:

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compare that to a blowup of Nick's photo:

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It does not look military at all. Hmmm.
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Old 16-05-2013, 05:36   #41
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

Not arguing , but several companies sell Radomes into military arenas

http://www.woodsons.co.uk/images/pro...RGUS_OCT11.pdf


Iy could be that the submarines have them to be compliant with commercial shipping when in peacetime, probably a lot cheaper then the usual military 'hammer'

Ive been on several warships, there was a lot of standard commercial equipment. I see no issue with whats in the photos, its just probably used for surface close in scanning

for example as described in the brochure, SIMRAD push the broadband radar as in effect a perimeter scanning system for ship security.

dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:06   #42
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Not arguing , but several companies sell Radomes into military arenas

http://www.woodsons.co.uk/images/pro...RGUS_OCT11.pdf


Iy could be that the submarines have them to be compliant with commercial shipping when in peacetime, probably a lot cheaper then the usual military 'hammer'

Ive been on several warships, there was a lot of standard commercial equipment. I see no issue with whats in the photos, its just probably used for surface close in scanning

for example as described in the brochure, SIMRAD push the broadband radar as in effect a perimeter scanning system for ship security.

dave
There's no radome in that brochure, but the Argus open array could be the unit we see in Nick's second photo -- it has the same lines as the Raymarine recreational one.
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Old 16-05-2013, 06:07   #43
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

SIMRAD use the 4G unit in the Argus system as a close in radar

Dave
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Old 16-05-2013, 12:30   #44
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
SIMRAD use the 4G unit in the Argus system as a close in radar

Dave
Yes, I just noticed that! Looks like an off-the-shelf Simrad 4G. Who'd a thunk it. They advertise it for docking big ships, anti-piracy, harbor pilotage, and other close-in work. If that means that our recreational Simrad radars are more or less acceptable for commercial purposes, that is good
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Old 28-05-2013, 20:29   #45
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Re: B&G (Simrad) 4G Radar (This one has a Garmin - clear confirmation

This one has a Garmin - zoom in and there is no doubt - you can read it. I have seen another picture with a radome bearing red writing. I'll try to post it later.
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