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Old 20-02-2016, 03:51   #16
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Ah, sorry, the Vulcan probably does NOT do this, as it does not have Ethernet at all. I thought we were talking about GoFree.
I thought we are talking about GoFree too?.... isn't that the APP that receives the Info?.....

I fail to see the relevance of Ethernet?..... doesn't that just take the info from Zeus to Wifi module?...... whereas Vulcan has Wifi Module built in?....

Why would the Wifi sentences be any different from Zeus+Wifi module, and Vulcan?....
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Old 20-02-2016, 03:56   #17
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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maybe one day we can have wireless NMEA capability, but i assume you cannot now?
I'm not entirely sure of the question, since my understanding is that both the Zeus+wifi module and the Vesper have wireless NMEA cpability??
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Old 20-02-2016, 06:42   #18
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Is the same true for bluetooth.?... I am using a NAVICO WR10 Autopilot remote..... its bluetooth...
Potentially yes, but I think less likely.

The big difference is that with a good antenna and a booster wifi has a range of several miles. Bluetooth is reliable up to 30 feet and maybe up to 300 feet. Thus it is more likely that you'll notice a nefarious hacker lurking near your boat.

Bluetooth devices have an option to be "discoverable." If that option is enabled, then any other Bluetooth device can see it and potentially access it. Turn that feature off. I'm not familiar with the the Navico remote, so I don't know if that feature can be turned off.

The effort to hack a Bluetooth remote is probably pretty great while the payoff is pretty low, so why hack it?

However, anyone can download B&G's Go-Free software and hacking an onboard network potentially gives access to any laptops, tablets, and smartphones on board. The possibilities for nefarious activities abound with access to those devices. It maybe worth the effort.

The moral of the story, don't make your bluetooth devices discoverable and use a secure password on your onboard wifi.

Google "can bluetooth devices be hacked."
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:22   #19
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

This gives me a thought. If I have access to the autopilot via wifi does that mean that if I fall overboard I can turn the boat upwind to stop her from my phone if I fall overboard. That's an interesting thought... Maybe not that difficult both the laptop and phone have wifi just need the software. Phone is android, computer win 10. May need help on that one.
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:32   #20
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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WOW..... this is an On-going argument throughout these Forums....

You say "But anyway assuming the for a full second station at the helm for some reason you appear to be trying to do it with an ipad! "

I do indeed need a second bridge station. If I was a live aboard, or had the luxury of keeping my boat in a Marina...... and If I could afford it..... I would have a second plotter at the helm, however, my boat lives on a swing mooring, and I fear it would very soon be stolen.

So here is where there are two distinct camps on these Forums.... My camp, that believe an ipad in a suitably waterproof case, is every bit marine quality, and I'm assuming your camp that will never accept this......

You say that "If you need a second bridge station it needs to be a proper marine one, ie a second networked chart plotter + instrument repeaters,"....

I say that this is exactly what the ipad with Go_free is.......

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.......
It's been done to death and probably not worth repeating all the arguments we've had.

Everyone will have to make up his own mind.

But do consider for a moment all the different things which can happen to an IPad at a critical moment. This is light-duty consumer electronics, not designed or intended for use outdoors, functions involving life safety, etc.

A real marine plotter is daylight visible (IPad -- not), waterproof (Ipad -- only water resistant and only then if you keep it in an awkward bag), permanently wired (IPad -- not, and if you try you destroy waterproofness), rugged (IPad -- extremely fragile), and designed to perform a single function without crashes, software update demands, etc. (IPad -- well, you get the picture).

I used an IPad in the cockpit for almost a whole season while I was waiting for the first Zeus Touch imported to the U.S. to be delivered to me (it arrived a half year after it was initially promised). Does it work? Yes. Is it suitable? In my opinion, absolutely not.

I was going into Poole Harbor one night single handed on a moonless night. Poole is a bewildering maze of lights with several channels, with knee-deep water either side of all of them. Screw up and you're on the bricks. Just making the turn into the ship channel my IPad -- switched itself off due to low battery. And there I was standing with my whatsit in my hand.

After that experience really rammed it home, never.

And why? By the time you buy the IPad, the RAM mount, the waterproof bag, the nav program, etc., etc., you could have bought two 7" real marine plotters. They are so cheap now, that I just can't see the point of people trying to force light duty, fragile consumer electronics into this role for which they are so ill-suited.

YMMV.
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:35   #21
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
This gives me a thought. If I have access to the autopilot via wifi does that mean that if I fall overboard I can turn the boat upwind to stop her from my phone if I fall overboard. That's an interesting thought... Maybe not that difficult both the laptop and phone have wifi just need the software. Phone is android, computer win 10. May need help on that one.
What's the range of your wifi connection, and how much time will it take for your boat to sail out of it? There's your answer. 5 knots is roughly 2 1/2 meters per second or 150 meters in a minute.
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Old 20-02-2016, 07:45   #22
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Gi-Lo View Post
I thought we are talking about GoFree too?.... isn't that the APP that receives the Info?.....

I fail to see the relevance of Ethernet?..... doesn't that just take the info from Zeus to Wifi module?...... whereas Vulcan has Wifi Module built in?....

Why would the Wifi sentences be any different from Zeus+Wifi module, and Vulcan?....
Zeus plotters send all network data (also radar datastream) plus charts and waypoints etc. over Ethernet. That's how they're networked with each other and to the radar. NMEA2000 data is translated to 0183 and sent over Ethernet as well.

GoFree takes all that data from Ethernet, filters out the radar (that's the diff between the WiFi 1 module and a normal router, but some routers can apparently be set up to do the same thing), and streams it to any device connected by wifi to the router.

Vulcan has its own wifi and doesn't do radar, and is not networked like the Zeuses are. There is no technical reason why the Vulcan couldn't do the same translation and likewise stream the translated network data of wifi, but I bet it doesn't, especially if they told you it doesn't. There is no reason for it to have that capability, whereas with GoFree it's just a byproduct of the network design. But why don't you try it and see?
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Old 20-02-2016, 08:08   #23
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

GoFree takes all that data from Ethernet, filters out the radar (that's the diff between the WiFi 1 module and a normal router, but some routers can apparently be set up to do the same thing), and streams it to any device connected by wifi to the router.
I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that regular routers filter the data? Or that the Wifi-1 does something to the data to allow it to be seen? The protocol for the Wifi-1 is pretty dated technology, only 5.11 b/g, no n.

I suspect the Vulcan has fewer capabilities in order to meet a price point. There's about a $500 difference between a 7"Vulcan and a 7" Zeus2.

I also suspect that there is a Wifi-2 on the horizon. B&G has a rebate program where they are giving away Wifi-1s with some cash on Zeus2 purchases. Probably also a Zeus3 on the horizon.
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Old 20-02-2016, 09:23   #24
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that regular routers filter the data? Or that the Wifi-1 does something to the data to allow it to be seen? The protocol for the Wifi-1 is pretty dated technology, only 5.11 b/g, no n.

I suspect the Vulcan has fewer capabilities in order to meet a price point. There's about a $500 difference between a 7"Vulcan and a 7" Zeus2.

I also suspect that there is a Wifi-2 on the horizon. B&G has a rebate program where they are giving away Wifi-1s with some cash on Zeus2 purchases. Probably also a Zeus3 on the horizon.
Yes, the Simrad network uses UDP Multicast to pour the radar data into any connected device. It uses 8mb/s of bandwidth, which can flood the network. To disable it, you need to enable something in the router called IGMP Snooping. It is done automatically with WiFi-1, and some normal routers have this capability as well. See:

http://www.simrad-yachting.com/Root/...ed%20Setup.pdf

I like the WiFi-1 device, which is waterproof and uses waterproof connectors. It's plug and play. It doesn't do anything you couldn't get certain normal routers to do, but it has other advantages, including less fiddling. I paid $200 for mine when they first came out, and thought it was a good deal. Kudos to Navico also for being fairly open about how to network their devices.
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Old 20-02-2016, 10:13   #25
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

Dockhead, thank you for the explanation. I wasn't going to use the Wifi-1 because of the cost, but that might have been a frustrating experience. With the B&G rebate, one comes free. I'll Take it!

Over the winter I've been accumulating the parts and pieces needed to add the Zeus system to my boat. Beginning to chomp at the bit (pun intended) to install the new electronics and get them working.

When finished, we'll have the 9" Zeus2 at the helm with 4G radar, Vespar XB800 AIS transponder, and Standard Horizon Matrix GX2200 with integrated AIS/GPS. For backup and route planing we'll use a Macbook and iPad.

With some luck, they'll play nice with each other. The VHF will remain independent of the instrument network.
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Old 20-02-2016, 10:44   #26
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
Dockhead, thank you for the explanation. I wasn't going to use the Wifi-1 because of the cost, but that might have been a frustrating experience. With the B&G rebate, one comes free. I'll Take it!

Over the winter I've been accumulating the parts and pieces needed to add the Zeus system to my boat. Beginning to chomp at the bit (pun intended) to install the new electronics and get them working.

When finished, we'll have the 9" Zeus2 at the helm with 4G radar, Vespar XB800 AIS transponder, and Standard Horizon Matrix GX2200 with integrated AIS/GPS. For backup and route planing we'll use a Macbook and iPad.

With some luck, they'll play nice with each other. The VHF will remain independent of the instrument network.
Great. I think WiFi1 doesn't really have any drawbacks other than integration with a normal network, and even that might be possible. WiFi1 has two Ethernet ports, so conceivably you could connect it to a regular router (like my Huawei B593) by Ethernet, disable the wifi in the Huawei, and then every device connected to the WiFi-1's wifi network will have boat data plus Internet and anything else you have on your normal network.

I would be really interested to know whether any of the networking geeks on here think that might be possible.
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Old 20-02-2016, 11:18   #27
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

You should in theory be able to tell the iPad that you want to hook up to a static ip. There are websites that talk about how to do this. I had to do it for my grandmother. We got her a 4G iPad because she wanted to FaceTime with her family. But she also wanted to print. So I created a home WiFi that wasn't hooked to the Internet but was hooked to the printer. She was able to surf the Internet through the 4G and print on the wifi.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
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Old 20-02-2016, 12:44   #28
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Great. I think WiFi1 doesn't really have any drawbacks other than integration with a normal network, and even that might be possible. WiFi1 has two Ethernet ports, so conceivably you could connect it to a regular router (like my Huawei B593) by Ethernet, disable the wifi in the Huawei, and then every device connected to the WiFi-1's wifi network will have boat data plus Internet and anything else you have on your normal network.

I would be really interested to know whether any of the networking geeks on here think that might be possible.
The Wifi 1 can operate in client mode where it connects to a wireless hotspot. The example in the installation manual is for a marina network. This gives the MFD access to the internet for software up dates. Conceivably it could also connect in client mode to an onboard wifi network if the onboard router is in client mode to the marina wifi.

According to the instructions from the MFD will not be available in client mode to tablets and laptops. Not sure if that is the case if the wifi 1 is in client mode to an onboard router.

From my perspective, the wifi 1 has 2 big limitations, slow speed with only b/g networking and only 2 ports. In my configuration one port will be set to the radar and one to the MFD. Limited bandwidth and limited connectivity are big shortcomings for a $200 router.

For these reasons, i think the wifi 1 is reaching the end of its life. That B&G is now giving them away supports that.

Last B&G stopped allowing retailers to discount their products. The retail price was no longer suggested. Except for products that were at or beyond their life span. You might have noticed the price on the 12" Zeus Touch has fallen like a rock over the past year. Last fall I bought a 12" Zeus Touch and a 4G radar for a little over $2100 after the rebate. Last I noticed Defender has the 12" Zeus Touch for under $1000.
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Old 20-02-2016, 22:31   #29
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

Dock,

As Dave says above, you can set the WiFi unit to client mode using the MFD (at least you can with my Zeus2) and it will connect to the Internet through another access point wirelessly. I don't believe hardwiring the unit via Ethernet to another router / access point is allowed. But you do lose the ability to connect to it with a tablet until you leave client mode.
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Old 20-02-2016, 22:47   #30
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Re: B & G GO-FREE (ish)

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Dockhead, thank you for the explanation. I wasn't going to use the Wifi-1 because of the cost, but that might have been a frustrating experience. With the B&G rebate, one comes free. I'll Take it!



Over the winter I've been accumulating the parts and pieces needed to add the Zeus system to my boat. Beginning to chomp at the bit (pun intended) to install the new electronics and get them working.



When finished, we'll have the 9" Zeus2 at the helm with 4G radar, Vespar XB800 AIS transponder, and Standard Horizon Matrix GX2200 with integrated AIS/GPS. For backup and route planing we'll use a Macbook and iPad.



With some luck, they'll play nice with each other. The VHF will remain independent of the instrument network.

Dave,

You may want to consider the B&G VHF as that will allow you to radio another vessel directly from the chartplotter using DSC by selecting the vessel on the chart and then tapping Call on the screen. If you aren't interested in this feature, then the GX2200 is otherwise functionally about the same. I have a similar setup to what you describe including the Zeus2, the 4G radar and the XB-8000, but have the V50 VHF instead. For backup and route planning I am running Coastal Explorer on a laptop connected to the N2K bus with a Rose Point N2K / USB gateway. They all play well together and I am very happy with the setup.

Hope this helps...

And out of curiosity, why will the VHF be kept independent of the instrument network? Mine is on the network with the AIS disabled, but if something went wrong with the XB-8000 it is a simple matter to reactivate the AIS functionality and once again have it displayed on the chartplotter. Just curious if I am missing something.
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