Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-01-2015, 16:20   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,425
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Yes you can still get it like that, but no more stuff will have it...And Navico are promoting the B&G side for sailboats....
The AP24 is just a control head, I doubt they will re-engineer it for micro c. It is not used in the current B&G system.
The primary website is, as I understand it, going to get a major revamp.
Dont' understand, you're implying there are (2) model of AP24? One with Simnet and a different one with MicroC???
__________________

__________________
DotDun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 16:24   #32
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Neptune's Gear's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Gulf Harbour, New Zealand
Boat: Farr Phase 4, 12.8m
Posts: 992
Re: autopilot

Nope. Just Simnet. I'm saying all the new stuff has/will have Micro C. The AP24 has been around for more than 5 years, and is likely to be replaced by a new unit with micro c. I don't know that for sure, just one of the Navico developers told me that all the new stuff coming up is micro c....
__________________
Matt Paulin
Neptunes Gear Ltd
www.neptunes-gear.com
Neptune's Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 16:42   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,425
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Nope. Just Simnet. I'm saying all the new stuff has/will have Micro C. The AP24 has been around for more than 5 years, and is likely to be replaced by a new unit with micro c. I don't know that for sure, just one of the Navico developers told me that all the new stuff coming up is micro c....
Thanks.

I cautious with Simrad as I've been burnt before by lack of compatibility within their own product line (not support mix/match of old and new equipment).
__________________
DotDun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 19:51   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
My experience is all the major APs have enough functions for the average sailor and cruiser
"Functions" are one thing - and I strongly disagree that all major AP's are equivalent here (the two examples I gave are very useful and not found on others). But the steering and adaptive algorithms are more important - and these are definitely different among the manufacturers.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 20:01   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Nope. Just Simnet. I'm saying all the new stuff has/will have Micro C. The AP24 has been around for more than 5 years, and is likely to be replaced by a new unit with micro c. I don't know that for sure, just one of the Navico developers told me that all the new stuff coming up is micro c....
Yes, the AP24 is the only thing left with simnet connector on the back, but it ships with a simnet-microC cable, so this really isn't a problem (at least ours did 3 years ago - I don't know what ships now).

The AP24 is really long in the tooth. I hate looking at it next to the Tritons, and its night visibility is horrible. I expected this to be updated by now, and still think it will be soon. Maybe it will go to a Triton-type or the H5000 type?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 20:19   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: autopilot

All I can say is I have had an Alpha 3000 which about 28yrs and only had a couple of problems... I had to replace the drive and then I upgraded the processor in the control head, The boat is 16,000# and 36' and done tens of thousands coast of offshore with the Alpha. It will not take steering info from a GPS. YOU have to be the interface! But it has a dial which I find preferable to punching 1s and 10s... I can literally sit on the coaming with my hand down on the steering knob and watch and steer... I don't have to take my eyes off of the sea/surroundings to find the button and press it. A remote with buttons might work... but this dial is like a mini helm... very intuitive. I love it! The service is good.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 20:31   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: autopilot

Pretty much all AP vendors offer control heads with a steering knob/dial, if that is your preference. All of them allow one to be the sole manual steering interface, if that is your preference. All of them allow one to mount them so that one needs to sit out on a coaming while reaching down to the cockpit wall, if that is your preference.

The difference is all of the rest allow other choices too.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 21:10   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I have been talking to a professional installer recently who has installed and serviced well over 1000 auto pilot units of all brands. I am in the process of replacing my autopilot as well. In his opinion it is in this order: Simrad, Furuno.....last Raymarine.


Just throwing this out here, I serviced commercial vessel steering systems since the 70s and Sperry both invented the autopilot and still leads the industry.

I use one of their rudder feedback units.

If indeed you want to buy first class. Bring a fat wallet.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...a9#/223490a9/4
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 03:14   #39
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
"Functions" are one thing - and I strongly disagree that all major AP's are equivalent here (the two examples I gave are very useful and not found on others). But the steering and adaptive algorithms are more important - and these are definitely different among the manufacturers.

Mark
Well, having sailed boats with all of the 4 major player APs over the years, I personally find most people just sail to compass or sail to next waypoint. Few do route following. Personally all I do is drop waypoints ahead and sail to them. watching others sail, very few use APs in any sophisticated way.

As to adaptive steering, etc. The biggest improvement has been integrated rate gyros, and Raymarine led the way here. Their downwind stability is very good.

Simrads AP is getting very long in tooth now, and really needs a refresh,( especially the small control head) I would agree with a previous poster that Rays auto config is very good and the adaptable learning isn't half bad,

Furunos in my experience, is an extremely good motorboat/workboat unit as that is its heritage, my experience is limited to 2 sails with their APs, I could see nothing that suggested their performance was above average.

Garmins one has improved, with various software upgrades, I haven't sailed enough of the sailboat fitted ones to comment yet.

I think its a very subjective issue, AP performance, so much is influenced by choice of actuator,mechanical installation, boat setup, sailing conditions and so on, for people to accurately make a real comparison.

My own experience is all of them are " adequate" for the average cruiser , the rest is personal preference or bias whichever you have.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 04:15   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,936
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Well, having sailed boats with all of the 4 major player APs over the years, I personally find most people just sail to compass or sail to next waypoint. Few do route following. Personally all I do is drop waypoints ahead and sail to them. watching others sail, very few use APs in any sophisticated way.

As to adaptive steering, etc. The biggest improvement has been integrated rate gyros, and Raymarine led the way here. Their downwind stability is very good.

Simrads AP is getting very long in tooth now, and really needs a refresh,( especially the small control head) I would agree with a previous poster that Rays auto config is very good and the adaptable learning isn't half bad,

Furunos in my experience, is an extremely good motorboat/workboat unit as that is its heritage, my experience is limited to 2 sails with their APs, I could see nothing that suggested their performance was above average.

Garmins one has improved, with various software upgrades, I haven't sailed enough of the sailboat fitted ones to comment yet.

I think its a very subjective issue, AP performance, so much is influenced by choice of actuator,mechanical installation, boat setup, sailing conditions and so on, for people to accurately make a real comparison.

My own experience is all of them are " adequate" for the average cruiser , the rest is personal preference or bias whichever you have.

Dave

One thing I do agree with is how we use our pilot..almost like a wind vane. Like you we steer to the next waypoint but I don't bother using anything but the basic compass as I like to adjust drift etc just by eye balling it, stupid I guess but I've just gotten used to doing it this way, gives me a better sense as to what's going on.
__________________
robert sailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 05:40   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
One thing I do agree with is how we use our pilot..almost like a wind vane. Like you we steer to the next waypoint but I don't bother using anything but the basic compass as I like to adjust drift etc just by eye balling it, stupid I guess but I've just gotten used to doing it this way, gives me a better sense as to what's going on.
This is how I do things and never understood using a GPS or MDF processor to make navigation/sailing decisions for you... Routes are not only for power boats which don't deal with the wind...

It's really no big deal to program a waypoint... get the bearing info and adjust your steering... manual or AP to make the mark... adjust it for wind and sea conditions which YOU are supposed to observe... not a GPS above.

I have limited experience with other APs and their interfaces... But the ones I did...AutoHelms I thought were awful +1, +10 things. AP may be improved these days as I would expect... It's simply too expensive to upgrade and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 06:23   #42
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,575
Re: autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think the majority of issues are around the drive units in APs. The linear drive unit in the lower end Ray systems are often used in situations adhere they are close to the operating envelope. You can see this sometimes in the wear on these units.

Moving to hydraulic pump & ram , turns APs like Raymarine up a notch. In practice if you look at the electronics , there is very little difference in Furunos leisure range and say Raymarine. Merely cause loads of workboats have them, is more a function of the strategic decisions furuno took to build relationships with local agents and service companies, because commercial users have different needs and will pay for that service.

In reality, all these systems have electronics built to a price.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I agree that the drive unit is the key for reliability on most boats. I had Ray AP computer(s) on my last boat with a Ray/Autohelm type 1 linear drive. The drive unit was was very reliable. I went through 3 Ray computers in 7 years of use. After that experience I shied away from Ray. While the basic electronics might be of similar quality on most of the AP computers, the little stuff like strain relief on all the cables is actually pretty different: The Ray units were decent, the Furuno was excellent and the Simrad I installed was poor in this regard. If you compare the rudder sensor on a Furuno to the rudder sensor on Ray and it is day and night in its quality. One is thin plastic, the other is a metal and solid.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 08:08   #43
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post

One thing I do agree with is how we use our pilot..almost like a wind vane. Like you we steer to the next waypoint but I don't bother using anything but the basic compass as I like to adjust drift etc just by eye balling it, stupid I guess but I've just gotten used to doing it this way, gives me a better sense as to what's going on.
Don't you guys use wind following mode? I use it almost exclusively sailing hard on the wind or DDW. Used it with the old Ray pilot and just as much with the new B&G pilot. It's the t*ts for this.

I use all the pilot modes, actually, except wind-nav mode, which I haven't figured out, and I use the tacking function to tack as well.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 10:00   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas, USA
Boat: Jeanneau 44DS
Posts: 239
Re: Autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Don't you guys use wind following mode? I use it almost exclusively sailing hard on the wind or DDW. Used it with the old Ray pilot and just as much with the new B&G pilot. It's the t*ts for this.

I use all the pilot modes, actually, except wind-nav mode, which I haven't figured out, and I use the tacking function to tack as well.
The WindNav mode is neat and is one of the biggest things I miss from having Simrad. There's not much to it:
  • It operates to your set minimum wind angle when your waypoint is upwind
  • It doesn't exceet 170deg downwind
  • Will suggest a lay line and count down the time to turn
__________________
Garrettw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2015, 10:45   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Autopilot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrettw View Post
The WindNav mode is neat and is one of the biggest things I miss from having Simrad. There's not much to it:
  • It operates to your set minimum wind angle when your waypoint is upwind
  • It doesn't exceet 170deg downwind
  • Will suggest a lay line and count down the time to turn
It also adjusts sailing angle to optimize VMG.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
autopilot

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CPT autopilot plus Monitor windvane or just W-H autopilot? graydog Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 03-05-2015 23:21
Autopilot salty Marine Electronics 3 25-03-2004 17:48
Autopilot irwinsailor Seamanship & Boat Handling 11 21-05-2003 03:05
Looking at B&G autopilot kd7lmq Marine Electronics 0 14-05-2003 17:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.