Anyone Observe Garmin Dealer Discontent ?

[bchaps]

I'm in the throes of choosing a new chart plotter and have talked with my local walk-in marine supply and several major internet/catalog marine suppliers. Surprisingly, one told me they would not be placing any new Garmin factory orders unless certain business questions were answered!!! ...and then, the person attempted to steer me toward Raymarine equipment???

Is anyone aware of what might be going on? I would guess Marine specific dealers who up front the costs for a Garmin display could be perturbed with Garmin selling through Outdoor and Sporting goods retailers and a thousands of internet electronics distributors. (rec'd 181,000 returns when Googling "Garmin Chartplotter for sale")

My concern is support. Most internet websites provide no product assistance or backup when something fails.

[GordMay]

Garmin was negotiating to buy out the failing Raymarine company. Recently, FLIR Industries completed a surprise purchase of Raymarine, which closed immediately (the problem /w Garmin‘s attempt).

I wouldn’t let any temporary dislocations in the industry drive my purchase.

In the past, I’ve generaly favoured Garmin over Raymarine.
I’m now out of touch & out of date.

[fishwife]

I look at Garmin and Raymarine stuff and it's ok, sort of, but when did you ever see a boat on 'The Deadliest Catch' equiped with either make? Walk around your harbor and see what all the working boats use. I'll not say what I see, decide for yourself. You can bet what they are using is robust, has very few service problems and a long working life.

P.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by fishwife

... Walk around your harbor and see what all the working boats use. I'll not say what I see, decide for yourself. You can bet what they are using is robust, has very few service problems and a long working life.
P.

Aw, comeon ...

[fishwife]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Aw, comeon ...

I believe, and experience is proving that paying more up front is giving me far more reliable equipment with a long service life. Black box stuff can be upgraded and interfaces far better than either Garmin or Raymarine.

P.

[Zednotzee]

Originally Posted by fishwife

Walk around your harbor and see what all the working boats use.

What if they've been reading the "Keeping dock walkers off" thread?

I have a Garmin depth sounder/GPS/Chartplotter (came with the boat). It works fine, but when I replace it I will only consider something than uses C-Map. That still leaves several manufacturers to choose from, & the chart coverage is excellent.

[bob_77903]

My boat is Garmin equipped, and I have not had any problems with interfacing, or maintenance issues. Also very pleased with there tech support. I have not heard or read anything that would lead me to believe the company not being sound, and one of the major suppliers of marine electronics. Just returned from the Bahamas, and my chartplotter (Garmin GPSMAP 4210) was spot on everywhere I went there. I wouldn't hesitate recommending Garmin to anyone.

[goboatingnow]

yes walk around a commercial dock and what youll see is COMMERCIAL furuno gear, lots of it, but what you will not see is lots of furuno leisure gear. theres a big difference. a lot of reasons why furuno is popular have to do with a local service agent, however prices are eyewateringly expensive, garmin, raymarine, furuno leisure, and simrad are all similar, built down to a price and aimed at a target market.

[Davey1000]

Originally Posted by bchaps

I'm in the throes of choosing a new chart plotter and have talked with my local walk-in marine supply and several major internet/catalog marine suppliers. Surprisingly, one told me they would not be placing any new Garmin factory orders unless certain business questions were answered!!! ...and then, the person attempted to steer me toward Raymarine equipment???

Is anyone aware of what might be going on? I would guess Marine specific dealers who up front the costs for a Garmin display could be perturbed with Garmin selling through Outdoor and Sporting goods retailers and a thousands of internet electronics distributors. (rec'd 181,000 returns when Googling "Garmin Chartplotter for sale")

My concern is support. Most internet websites provide no product assistance or backup when something fails.

I'd recommend a laptop as a chart plotter as I'm from across the pond (UK) where things cost more and where the service is worse. Years ago I used an old Toshiba Tecra coupled to a Magellan GPS running CMap, results were absolutely stunning. Nowadays CMap is regarded as obsolete by serious yachties as the latest chart plotting software shows rise and fall of the tides, tidal streams and day or night. These days I seem to have become the quartermaster for a friend who is micro cruising in a Robert Ives "Four 21". This is a great little pocket cruiser cleverly designed so that the boat length is pretty much the same as the LWL. Anyhow 110nm per day two days running crossing the Bay of Biscay can't be bad. Record speed by GPS surfing down a wave was 12 knots! Before he left I got the skipper another Garmin GPS12 on eBay. Unfortunately the almanac was corrupted and this was not discovered for a day or two by which time I'd left good feedback. The chandlers claimed that it was scrap and that one may as well bin it because the service charge was £50 (+VAT) minimum, plus postage both ways. Just a minute I thought, these units are made in the USA where people sue like crazy if things go wrong. It turns out that there is a rechargeable coin cell inside the Garmin. This coin cell supports volatile memory which stores the almanac. The coin cell gets its charge from the AA cells but when people store the unit with no AA cells in it (in case they leak) the coin cell runs down! Now I guessed that just like a computer there will be a BIOS stored in non-volatile ROM and this does seem to be the case. Problem was how to reset everything by writing the contents of ROM into RAM? maybe a computer with broadband might do it? Well no, it was much easier than that. It was just a case of resetting the time (the time comes from the satellites though and it cannot be reset by the user) Eventually I discovered secret commands. Something like YES NO YES NO YES. (Forgot the exact details, sorry) When this is done a warning message appears, something like "Warning all data will be erased". Press YES then leave the Garmin on 12 volt power where it can see the sky. After 20 minutes or so it will have reset itself. Position will become accurate again as will sunrise and sunset times. Cost NOTHING but I felt that it was a poor do when even Garmin Europe replied to my request for help email by saying that the unit was beyond repair. Throwaway society I call it. OK these older units don't have the latest quick-lock SIRF chipsets like a car GPS but on a boat people are not usually in much of a hurry.

By the way Raymarine are not very helpful either as I found out. Problem device was an old Autohelm Tiller Pilot that had been submerged as a result of a flooded toilet. Luckily the yacht basin was freshwater. Problem was damp - all the plastic pillars had split so the rubber gasket ring was not being clamped. Copper tube was epoxied over the split pillars. Whilst I was at it I rewired the wiring to the motor as a quick helix twisted pair and fitted a 0.1uF capacitor. (original wiring was two separate wires about an inch apart, duh!) The report that came back was "I don't know what you did to that Autohelm but it now works better than it ever did". Ah well these firms just can't get the right staff anymore.

[Davey1000]

Originally Posted by bchaps

I'm in the throes of choosing a new chart plotter and have talked with my local walk-in marine supply and several major internet/catalog marine suppliers. Surprisingly, one told me they would not be placing any new Garmin factory orders unless certain business questions were answered!!! ...and then, the person attempted to steer me toward Raymarine equipment???

Is anyone aware of what might be going on? I would guess Marine specific dealers who up front the costs for a Garmin display could be perturbed with Garmin selling through Outdoor and Sporting goods retailers and a thousands of internet electronics distributors. (rec'd 181,000 returns when Googling "Garmin Chartplotter for sale")

My concern is support. Most internet websites provide no product assistance or backup when something fails.

Spare a thought for the dealers, this electronic stuff goes out of date so quickly that they can easily get lumbered with tons of obsolete equipment that cost them thousands. Take radar alarms for example, (I won't mention any names). Since the new AIS radios came in, the world has changed. A British company called NASA (no relation to the space flight organisation) has produced a "radar" using AIS and GPS combined. Cost is about £200 and the unit is lightweight, compact and economical with power. Ships names, speeds and courses can all be displayed and proximity alarms set. Makes stuff from a couple of years ago look as if it was invented in the Stone Age. Needless to say dealers who have been lumbered with obsolete stock are going to be very wary in the future. Not much call for Loran or Decca Navigators these days.

[msulc]

I read on one of the boards that Defender would going to stop carrying some of the Garmin stuff. That alarms me. I have a 4208 chartplotter and 18HD radar from Garmin bought in the last year and both have had problems where I had to send them in.

[roverhi]

I've got a Garmin 3206 that I'm running a WestMarine AIS unit on. The manual is easy to read and follow and the one time I had to call Garmin, the help was excellent, the technician patient, and we got the unit up and running in a few minutes. I just did a Transpac with the system and all went without a hitch. Sure was an eye opener to have all that ship information and I just had to follow the Magenta road to paradise. I haven't interfaced with the Raymarine X5 autopilot but, if getting it to work with the WestMarine AIS is any indication, it should go without a hitch. Personally don't believe in connecting the A/P to the GPS so won't try it.

The 3206 is older technology but the price was right and included all the US charts. From what I hear, the garmin charts are considerably better than the others electronic charts, btw. If I was buying to day, would probably go for the 4XXX series as they use proprietary chips for charts outside the included US ones.

[David M]

Originally Posted by fishwife

I look at Garmin and Raymarine stuff and it's ok, sort of, but when did you ever see a boat on 'The Deadliest Catch' equiped with either make? Walk around your harbor and see what all the working boats use. I'll not say what I see, decide for yourself. You can bet what they are using is robust, has very few service problems and a long working life.

P.

Yup, mostly Furuno. Their customer service is excellent as well.

[CarlF]

I've got to agree with the "come on" sentiment.

If you need a system for a commercial fishing boat, look at Furuno commercial - but then you should also look at the bridges of really large ships or even super yachts. Not so much Furuno. You'll see a lot of other names that the commercial fisherman can't afford - Sperry, Kelvin Hughes, Elna, etc.

Or you could go look at the navy docks. There you'll see a whole lot of Raytheon and only Furuno on the smallest craft.

Or look at planes. Can't do much better than a flight deck for reliability. Lot of Garmin. No Furuno at all.

The leisure versions of all three are quite good and much better in functionality than five years ago. Raymarine had it's support challenges but I bet it gets better now that it's on good business footing.

And to the OP. In my experience, that dealer was just trying to maximize his profit because he had a good dealer rate from Raymarine. Next week he might love Garmin if his "business questions" get answered with a few more points discount.

Carl

[Healer52]

Pretty sure Furuno doesn't make any aviation stuff. I like Garmin aviation equipment, I have purchased it for my airplane, and carry a handheld just in case unit when flying too. I also have Garmin in my autos, and my backpacks.

I think that if I was going to equip a boat from scratch, I'd go with Furuno for most everything, except comm - which would be Icom. Lower end Furuno gear seems more durable than good Raymarine gear, and is more repairable around the world. I've heard good things about Furuno support, and not for Raymarine (even before the acquisition). Who knows how FLIR will handle Raymarine? Garmin support, the few times I've had to use it has been first rate, got to give them that.

Garmin doesn't offer enough (yet). Perhaps they will at some point, if they do the rest of the industry better watch out, Garmin has beat the crap out of most of the avionics industry (except for the extreme high end like Sperry and Honeywell). When (if) they offer the range of products that Furuno or Raymarine offers, then perhaps they'll be ready for the front row, until then they seem to be selling most all of the equipment they want to recreational boaters who don't go far from home.