Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-04-2013, 13:16   #16
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
I think the RM transducer can be had for ~$300.
RM? no let's not say nor write that word in full
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 15:11   #17
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
RM? no let's not say nor write that word in full
I've just retired a 10 year old Raymarine network which never gave a moment's trouble in all of its life (other than the wind vane snapped off by a horny seagull; not Raymarine's fault). It was a great system, beautiful sturdy construction, like military hardware, extremely well thought out user interface, and I was generally very happy with it, and would not have changed it quite yet except that the radar was fading and I couldn't display AIS data.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 15:27   #18
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

You guys are so old school, and I am really surprised Jedi is so behind the times. The 'modern' wind sensor technology is LIDAR.

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 15:56   #19
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
You guys are so old school, and I am really surprised Jedi is so behind the times. The 'modern' wind sensor technology is LIDAR.

"Doppler LIDAR and Rayleigh Doppler LIDAR are used to measure temperature and/or wind speed along the beam by measuring the frequency of the backscattered light. The Doppler broadening of gases in motion allows the determination of properties via the resulting frequency shift.[17][18] Scanning LIDARs, such as NASA's HARLIE LIDAR, have been used to measure atmospheric wind velocity in a large three dimensional cone.[19] ESA's wind mission ADM-Aeolus will be equipped with a Doppler LIDAR system in order to provide global measurements of vertical wind profiles.[20] A doppler LIDAR system was used in the 2008 Summer Olympics to measure wind fields during the yacht competition.[21] Doppler LIDAR systems are also now beginning to be successfully applied in the renewable energy sector to acquire wind speed, turbulence, wind veer and wind shear data. Both pulsed and continuous wave systems are being used. Pulsed systems using signal timing to obtain vertical distance resolution, whereas continuous wave systems rely on detector focusing."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

It sounds extremely good! But not offered by Raymarine, Navico, Garmin, or Furuno, as far as I can tell . . . so far . . .
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 16:02   #20
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

I actually ran across LIDAR when doing some technical work (adjustable pitch blades) on wind turbines.

In sailing . . . . well Oracle has a LIDAR unit. About the size of a large pair of binoculars. Can measure wind speed and direction to an accuracy of 1% at 2-3kms. I have tried it . . . very neat. Only about $250K.

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 16:11   #21
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
I actually ran across LIDAR when doing some technical work (adjustable pitch blades) on wind turbines.

In sailing . . . . well Oracle has a LIDAR unit. About the size of a large pair of binoculars. Can measure wind speed and direction to an accuracy of 1% at 2-3kms. I have tried it . . . very neat. Only about $250K.

Let's hope it trickles down to us mere mortal sailors before we're dead . . .
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 17:10   #22
Registered User
 
CaptainDana's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Patuxent River, MD
Boat: MorganByCatalina OutIslandClassic '41
Posts: 56
I have heard and read that the ultrasonic transducer's accuracy in light air is far less than cups and feathers. I have no idea if this is true but I learned long ago to take that kind of stuff with the same grain of salt as I do with the OEM's reviews of their own gear. Has anyone got a goodly amount of experience with the maritron on a sailboat? If so, I'd love to read about it.
__________________
CaptainDana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 17:24   #23
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainDana View Post
I have heard and read that the ultrasonic transducer's accuracy in light air is far less than cups and feathers. I have no idea if this is true but I learned long ago to take that kind of stuff with the same grain of salt as I do with the OEM's reviews of their own gear. Has anyone got a goodly amount of experience with the maritron on a sailboat? If so, I'd love to read about it.
When the cups stop spinning, my system says 1, 2 or 3 knots. I think that at 2 knots steady the cups keep spinning but they need a bit of >3 knots to start spinning from stand-stil.

But, we were discussing the accuracy of the ultrasonic units... I guess it takes a LIDAR to check that I would believe a B&G system would be more accurate than ultrasonic but that's about it I think. Replacing my $1,275.- B&G wind sensor was what made me throw the whole B&G system out as I don't think it's worth that kind of money for cruising. nI sold all other components, which were pretty old, and that paid for the new sensors!
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 17:38   #24
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,865
Images: 4
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

I have heard that the ultrasonic units aren't so accurate in the rain. I have no idea if this is truly an issue, or how bad the inaccuracy (if any) might be.
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 15:42   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Hi,

I was reading the specs on the ultra sonic wind speed sensor and it appears to not work in the rain, in winds over a certain speed (seemed quite low), and various other issues. Or it may work in those conditions but the error was very high in rain, etc.

Have you had a chance to use the unit and see if it works in 'typical' conditions? I had thought about going the same direction during a mast repaint over the summer, and installing the ultra sonic unit...

In my case I have the TackTick units from back in 2005 and they have worked fairly well over the last 8 years, but one problem is with the update speed of the 0183 is too slow for the newer AC42 Simrad Computer, when using the 'Sailing' function.

With the slower updates the old 0183 wind instruments causes too many alarms on the AP to make running in "Wind" mode not worth the effort.
__________________
China Doll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 07:35   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

We have a cup anemometer, a windex and the Maretron WSO ultrasonic.

The cup and ultrasonic read the same in all wind conditions until VERY light wind, when the anemometer stops and the WSO still reads.

The windex and ultrasonic seem to point in the same direction in all conditions with the exception of that when the winds are very light and the boat is rocking, the windex spins 360*, but the ultrasonic reads a steady direction.

We just yesterday used the WSO in a heavy rain squall and it worked just fine. We have used it in the rain countless times over the past 1.5 yrs with no noticed problems with accuracy or precision.

We have only seen 50kts with the WSO and it measured it perfectly, so I don't know what the upper speed is that you saw would not work. The manual states 100kts.

Of course, these comparisons above are not absolute, as both the cup and ultrasonic units may have the same amount of error in them.

We have been cruising with our WSO for 1.5 years now and it has worked just fine. We use it often in wind vane mode controlling the autopilot with no problems. In fact it works very well this way, but I think that has more to do with the AP than the wind indicator.

The WSO was half the cost of the B&G we replaced and the same cost as the Garmin and we considered (briefly). The $300 RM unit is the short arm unit without the mounting base or cable. You need to add another $150 to the price if you actually want to use it. The normal sailing unit is over $500. We paid $540 for our WSO.

We do now have a problem with our Maretron WSO. The humidity sensor has stopped working recently. Not a big issue since we don't actually use it for anything, but it still annoys me and the unit will be going back for replacement.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 08:05   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 720
Images: 13
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Impressive product. Too bad they don't make a 24v version.

How would you get this to talk to a B&G Triton 41 display?
__________________
CAELESTIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 08:21   #28
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
We do now have a problem with our Maretron WSO. The humidity sensor has stopped working recently. Not a big issue since we don't actually use it for anything, but it still annoys me and the unit will be going back for replacement.

Mark
I had that too which lead to the discovery that it was filled with water.... I should check the new one if it has any water inside, but it is working 100% so I think it's good.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 08:37   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAELESTIS View Post
Impressive product. Too bad they don't make a 24v version.

How would you get this to talk to a B&G Triton 41 display?
Just plug both of them into the N2K backbone. We also have the Triton displays. No setup required.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:36   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kimberton PA
Boat: Cabo Rico 38 / Bayfield 32
Posts: 573
Images: 1
Re: Any disadvantages to ultrasonic wind sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
We have a cup anemometer, a windex and the Maretron WSO ultrasonic.

The cup and ultrasonic read the same in all wind conditions until VERY light wind, when the anemometer stops and the WSO still reads.

The windex and ultrasonic seem to point in the same direction in all conditions with the exception of that when the winds are very light and the boat is rocking, the windex spins 360*, but the ultrasonic reads a steady direction.

We just yesterday used the WSO in a heavy rain squall and it worked just fine. We have used it in the rain countless times over the past 1.5 yrs with no noticed problems with accuracy or precision.

We have only seen 50kts with the WSO and it measured it perfectly, so I don't know what the upper speed is that you saw would not work. The manual states 100kts.

Of course, these comparisons above are not absolute, as both the cup and ultrasonic units may have the same amount of error in them.

We have been cruising with our WSO for 1.5 years now and it has worked just fine. We use it often in wind vane mode controlling the autopilot with no problems. In fact it works very well this way, but I think that has more to do with the AP than the wind indicator.

The WSO was half the cost of the B&G we replaced and the same cost as the Garmin and we considered (briefly). The $300 RM unit is the short arm unit without the mounting base or cable. You need to add another $150 to the price if you actually want to use it. The normal sailing unit is over $500. We paid $540 for our WSO.

We do now have a problem with our Maretron WSO. The humidity sensor has stopped working recently. Not a big issue since we don't actually use it for anything, but it still annoys me and the unit will be going back for replacement.

Mark
Thanks!!! That was exactly the kind of information what I was looking for. Maretron doesn't exactly come out promote the WSO-100 as a mast head wind sailing instrument. Perhaps they should. They call it a "weather" instrument. Terminology and semantics I know, but I wasn't sure. Looks like I'll be ordering one soon.
__________________

__________________
Saltyhog is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
wind

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.