Ancor crimper rant

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Please don't take offense, but could you show us what you mean by the "re-trimming" the wire?

Just trying to understand why the crimps are failing.

I'm the fourth owner of a 30 year old boat. The wiring is a mess. What I mean by "re-trimming" is when I'm working on a short piece of wire that's sticking out of a bulkhead or wire run. Typically it's an inch or two long, and I want to attach a new fixture to it. When the first attempt to put a butt connector on it fails, I often have to cut that portion of the already short wire off with the ruined connector. The part in the crimp gets flattened and can't be pulled out. So what was originally a one inch stub wire is now only 3/4 of an inch long, and I have to again trim ( my word "re-trim" that was causing you confusion) the wire back, strip off a little more insulation, and try again to get a connector on it.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed

What is the correct tool for heat shrink crimp terminals?

A single crimper. Ancor makes a single ratchet crimper.

[The Garbone]

I use Ancor crimps but a Titan crimper that is $25 on Amazon. No problems. http://amzn.com/B0069TRKJ0

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I'm the fourth owner of a 30 year old boat. The wiring is a mess. What I mean by "re-trimming" is when I'm working on a short piece of wire that's sticking out of a bulkhead or wire run. Typically it's an inch or two long, and I want to attach a new fixture to it. When the first attempt to put a butt connector on it fails, I often have to cut that portion of the already short wire off with the ruined connector. The part in the crimp gets flattened and can't be pulled out. So what was originally a one inch stub wire is now only 3/4 of an inch long, and I have to again trim ( my word "re-trim" that was causing you confusion) the wire back, strip off a little more insulation, and try again to get a connector on it.

My boat's 35 years old. I feel your pain.

I have noticed that, in my situation, any existing original wire has lost a lot of its flexibility. It is tougher to strip when using an auto stripper, or when using a manual stripper, for example.

Whenever possible, I will remove (and that means not just abandon in place) the existing wire back to its source or earliest termination. I keep finding that old wire, regardless of manufacturer, will lose integrity of the insulating jacket, be undersized, or will start to exhibit creeping corrosion up the jacketed conductor. Can't do it in all circumstances, but will usually try. A single non-spliced wire is always the best, whenever possible.

Could deterioration/corrosion of the existing wiring metal conductor be causing problems trying to connect new to old?

[The Garbone]

Originally Posted by redsky49

My boat's 35 years old. I feel your pain.

I have noticed that, in my situation, any existing original wire has lost a lot of its flexibility. It is tougher to strip when using an auto stripper, or when using a manual stripper, for example.

Whenever possible, I will remove (and that means not just abandon in place) the existing wire back to its source or earliest termination. I keep finding that old wire, regardless of manufacturer, will lose integrity of the insulating jacket, be undersized, or will start to exhibit creeping corrosion up the jacketed conductor. Can't do it in all circumstances, but will usually try. A single non-spliced wire is always the best, whenever possible.

Could deterioration/corrosion of the existing wiring metal conductor be causing problems trying to connect new to old?

This is true, I pretty much replaced every wire on my boat from stem to stern.

[alctel]

I did too.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

A single crimper. Ancor makes a single ratchet crimper.

Well I bought an Ancor crimper and a bunch of Ancor connectors in different sizes. They're all Ancor. Nothing on the crimper says to use it with some of their connectors, but not their other connectors.

This is representative of the connectors I bought.
http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Electrical-Insulated-Adhesive-Connectors
I got yellow ones, blue ones, red ones. I got big yellow ones with blue lines on them to put two different sized wires together. I bought a shirtload. And I'm having to discard 75% of the ones I try to use.

This is the crimper:
http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-701030-D...V8848PPZ4RP2K2

[Training Wheels]

The double crimper has 2 different size crimping surfaces. The narrower one is for the part of the terminal where the bare wire is, the bigger part crimps the end of the connector against the wire insulation. Heat shrink terminals don't have the second wider part to crimp around the wire insulation. If you use a double crimper on a heat shrink connector, you risk damaging the heat shrink tubing.

As I remember offhand, when using the Ancor double crimper, the side that has the wire size printing always goes towards the wire, not the connector. That way the narrower crimp is on the bare wire. You must always have the crimper oriented the correct way.

I have had my double crimper for at least 10 years, and it has always worked flawlessly. By the way, this thread has motivated me to order an Ancor single crimper, which I have been wanting to do for some time.


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[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed

What is the correct tool for heat shrink crimp terminals?

The FTZ 94130 single crimp controlled cycle crimper is a decent DIY/mid grade tool for crimping heat shrink terminals.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Well I bought an Ancor crimper and a bunch of Ancor connectors in different sizes. They're all Ancor. Nothing on the crimper says to use it with some of their connectors, but not their other connectors.

This is representative of the connectors I bought.
http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Electrical-Insulated-Adhesive-Connectors
I got yellow ones, blue ones, red ones. I got big yellow ones with blue lines on them to put two different sized wires together. I bought a shirtload. And I'm having to discard 75% of the ones I try to use.

This is the crimper:
http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-701030-D...V8848PPZ4RP2K2

The Ancor tool for heat shrink terminals is the Single Crimp 703010 (Link)

Essentially you bought a toll for insulated terminals not heat shrink. The double crimper is intended for terminals like this:

[btrayfors]

Canibul,

If in your original rant you'd posted pix of the terminals and crimper you're using it would not have taken all the posts to see your problems.

Maine is right:

1. Those are heat-shrink butt connectors. The proper tool is the FTZ 94130 in the picture posted by MainSail.

2. The double-crimp tool you're railing about is an excellent tool, but only when used with the proper type of terminals. It is NOT intended for use with butt connectors, but rather with the 3-piece ring terminal connectors as shown in MaineSail's post. It will NOT work properly with butt connectors of any type, heat-shrink or not.

Bill

[btrayfors]

Canibul,

If in your original rant you'd posted pix of the terminals and crimper you're using it would not have taken all the posts to see your problems.

Maine is right:

1. Those are heat-shrink butt connectors. The proper tool is the FTZ 94130 in the picture posted by MainSail. This is a specially-designed tool with thick jaws designed not to damage the heat-shrink.

2. The double-crimp tool you're railing about is an excellent tool, but only when used with the proper type of terminals. It is NOT intended for use with butt connectors, but rather with the 3-piece ring terminal connectors as shown in MaineSail's post. It will NOT work properly with butt connectors of any type, heat-shrink or not.

Bill

[Jeanneau 45.2]

This is a timely thread as I got a bunch of Amazon gift cards for the holidays!!!! Last night I was browsing crimpers and terminations on Amazon and realized that I needed to decide whether I was going to commit to the heat shrink or double crimp technique. Since I only want to buy one Ancor crimper ($$$), what are the forum's recommendation as to single or double crimp. I guess another option is to buy two less expensive crimpers, one each. Why wouldn't one always use the adhesive heat shrink ... isn't that always superior to a non-sealed double crimp?

[Terra Nova]

Get the good double-crimp crimpers. You'll be using mostly that type of terminal. You can add shrink wherever it is required.

[jeepbluetj]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Get the good double-crimp crimpers. You'll be using mostly that type of terminal. You can add shrink wherever it is required.

And I'm the opposite. I'll only use heat-shrink terminals on a boat unless the terminal that I need just isn't available in heatshrink or I'd damage something shrinking it. (Like I need one in a hurry - WM doesn't carry all terms in heatshrink)

Why?

#1. Even in 'dry' locations, the wire/terminal can corrode if not sealed. My boat was not built with proper tinned wire. Where there was double-crimp terminals, all the original wire was horribly corroded. Everything I can replace has been replaced with good marine wire. I cannot pull new wire through the deck (it's glassed in) so I'm trying to keep that wiring alive as long as possible.

#2. The HS terms are easier (imho) to install. Just stick one in a single crimper and smash it. No correct or incorrect side of the crimper and the crimper is smaller. You've got a bit more leeway on the length of the strip too. If the double-crimp term doesn't crimp onto the insulation, there's no strain relief.

#3. It's less steps. Strip-crimp-shrink instead of cut some heatshrink - insert over wire - strip - crimp - shrink.

#4. The POs of the boats I've rewired all seem to be electrically challenged and used home depot double-crimp terminals exclusively. Many failures. Therefore I have an irrational fear of double-crimp terminals.

#5. The terminals are more slender and are a bit easier to position. The heatshrink is the good stuff with adhesive inside.

#6. HS connectors cost more. Therefore they're better (I am not being serious)


Just goes to show, ask 5 sailors their opinion, you'll get 10 answers.