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Old 22-12-2013, 17:17   #1
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Advice on small NMEA0183/2000/seatalk system

Hi. I'm trying to finish the electronics system in my small budget cruiser.

I got:
Geonav 11 flash: 2xNMEA0183 1xNMEA2000
Raymarine ST1000+ 1xNMEA0183 1xseatalk
RaymarineST70 2xSTng/st1/NMEA2000
Lowrance VHF 1xNMEA0183

Garmin GPS19 (NMEA0183)
ArimarP79 Sounder (NMEA2000)
I'll also get a wind sensor,but it has to be compatible with the AP, wich I understand the Clipper one, is not. Looks like the maretron ones is the way to go.

The ST70 may not be used for much more than as a sounder for now, but I got it for less than half price. And I want to use it as a wind instrument too.

Connections..

The GPS sends on NMEA0183, to the plotter and vhf..
The plotter sends on NMEA0183 to the AP.

This works fine, as of now..

I guess all the NMEA2000 stuff just goes together on the bus..

But is it possible to get wind data on both the ST70 display AND the ST1000+ AP?
If I'm correct, the ST1000+ does not convert NMEA0183 to ST1.
I have seen claims that it does, but I don't think the ST70 converts from ST1 to STng/NMEA2000 either, it just shows data from both buses.

About the Geonav?? no idea! This thing is from 2001, and all the manual says about NMEA2000 is that the standard was not properly defined when the plotter went into production ,and may, or may not need an software update??
I guess it transmit Nav data and wind data on the NMEA2000 network, but still, no guarantee.

So..NMEA2000 or 0813 windsensor?
Do you think I can connect the ST1000+ to the ST70, at the same time the ST70 is connected to the Geonav plotter trough NMEA2000?

A bit messy, I know.. Oh,yeah,Would be great if I could hookup my computer with Ocpn at any time...

.manitu
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Old 28-12-2013, 20:26   #2
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Re: Advice on small NMEA0183/2000/seatalk system

Hi again and sorry for the confusing first post.

I'm trying to build an electronics system for my budget cruiser, but my budget is small,and I need lots of other stuff too.
I got this old geonav plotter, and I would rather not get a new one before I have to.
I'll get a wind sensor before spring too.

I allso got a linux laptop at the nav-station, wich I plan to connect to a 7-10" waterproof touchscreen w/touch, to use primarily as a radar display at the helm.
Then, I'll need a heading sensor too..

So, I'm a bit confused regarding the network-setup.
If both the ST1000+ and the plotter translates between NMEA0183 and ST/N2K, I could get loop issues, right? And if none do, I'll need a converter. Or GPS/wind/compass input in both protocols.

I've noticed that the Airmar and Maretron wind and compass sensors have both N2K and 0183 output, and I will buy such ones if pure N2K sensors will not do.

My goal is to get as much information as possible to the N2K-bus(ST70),+ the computer.
If possible, the ST1000+ could use the wind data too.

I'll remove all equipment from the boat in a week or two for testing and system design.

Any suggestions, warnings, or experiences to share, please do!

.Manitu
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Old 28-12-2013, 20:54   #3
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ST70 will bridge ST1 to STng protocols in both directions.

ST1000 will not act as a general bridge from ST1 to NMEA 0183. Ie it just accepts data input from both , it may bridge but a few things pertinent to an autopilot but not general data.

Given what you have got I wouldn't use nmea2000. I'd stick with ST1 and bridge the Geonav onto ST1 using a protocol convertor , given its age I suspect the NMEA 2000 I/f on it won't work with anything

Dane
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Old 28-12-2013, 21:33   #4
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Re: Advice on small NMEA0183/2000/seatalk system

Thanks for the quick reply, and the information on the AP and ST70

I will buy a newer plotter sooner or later, In my experience, boat stuff is much cheaper if you got the time to shop for bargains. I bought the ST70 and P79 dirt cheap from a shop display. I would like at least the expesive sensors(wind/gyro) to be future proof.

But if the ST70 convert the wind data from a N2K sensor, to ST1, I'm good. Don't really need wind on the plotter for now. The gyro compasses I've looked at do both N2K and 0183. The-GPS/VHF/Plotter/AP 0183-network could just stay as it is for now, I guess?

GPS info on the ST70 would be nice, but not that important.. I might go for the Airmar GH2183 N2K/0183 compass w/GPS. But then the ST1000 will get heading and GPS-data on both the ST1 and 0183 bus, I think..

Heading and GPS data for the computer(GRadar/OCPN) is easy, AIS and wind should also be doable. I guess the biggest question now is N2K-0183 OR N2K-USB interface?

.manitu
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Old 31-12-2013, 12:13   #5
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Re: Advice on small NMEA0183/2000/seatalk system

Ok..Found out that the ST1000+ transmit two seatalk sentences: 84 and 9c.

9c encodes the Compass heading and Rudder position

The 84 datagram also encodes the compass heading and turning direction, plus the autopilot course when in auto mode, and the currently active mode (standby, auto, vane or track mode)Sailboat Instruments: Interfacing the Raymarine ST1000+ Autopilot

So I actually got a fluxgate! But on seatalk..

It seems like most converters only read the compass heading and rudder position, so i hope the ST70 at least does those two.
This gives me a basic, functioning system, but would love to get gps info from the GPS->VHF->Plotter NMEA0183 chain, to the ST70.
I would also like to get the wind and sounder data from NMEA2000/St1 to the Geonav, + the compass heading from St1 to the Geonav.

But, I don't want to spend big money interfacing the ancient geonav plotter, but will gladly buy equipment that will stay useful when I get a new MFD, or goes the OCPN + 4" backup fishfinder/chartplotter route.

So.. as a NMEA2000-computer interface, the Actisense or maretron? Others?

I found this ST1-RS232/422 bridge gadgetPool.de
It has some special features not seen on others.
First, If same data is available on both NMEA and ST1 bus, it will not bridge those sentences. It will however check again each half minute , and start bridging if one sensor quits..
Second, It has selectable RS232/422 input, but transmit on BOTH. So you can have bidirectional bridging, PLUS read-only computer connection. Or bidirectional computer-St1 interface plus a nmea feed to the VHF or similar.

And third. It can recieve and transmit ALL supported and unsupported St1 sentences, using a special $STALK NMEA sentence. How hard could it be to make OCPN talk native St1, at least read it? Maybe even a raymarine autopilot interface? The sentences are decoded so.. http://www.thomasknauf.de/rap/seatalk2.htm

.manitu
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Old 02-01-2014, 23:44   #6
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Re: Advice on small NMEA0183/2000/seatalk system

I got a bit carried away with all possibilities, But I have to realize that I probably wont buy more much more seatalk1 stuff.(exept, cheap AP's wich allways seems to be raymarines) Still , I want this bridge, just for logging and the ability to translate sentences.

I'll wait until I get the test rig up and running , Could be that my plotter handles NMEA2000 just fine , though I'm not counting on it.

And another thing.. The bridge is a 8 year old design, and they just released a new one , with 4 times the memory , a pc setup interface , and autopilot control! + USB.. Now a total of 3 inputs and 4 outputs.
Costs twice as much, though.
If I only could configure NMEA2000 sensors with it, The world would be perfect..

.manitu
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