Advice on electronics upgrade

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

Yes, I get that, need to consider power draw. I hadn't thought about the need to leave the unit on all night to really get the safety benefit of the anchor alarm. But now I'm wondering, for the XB 8000, one would set the parameters for the anchor alarm on the ipad or phone rather than the built in screen on the Vision but then would the alarm still function if the phone or ipad went to sleep?

You can add an external alarm to XB 8000 for about $40. It will go off independent of the tablet or iphone.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Paul L said, "The software on the fixed unit will not update itself and decide to mysteriously hang."

I beg to differ. I had three spontaneous shutdowns by a 2012 Furuno chartplotter in a little over 1000 miles, and zero by the iPad with Garmin BlueChart. One of the Furuno "BlackBox Errors" and shutdowns was approaching Fort Pierce Inlet, but since I always had the iPad on standby, I just used the iPad. As for battery life, get an Anker (or two) external battery to recharge the iPad. I went from Marsh Harbor, through Sea of Abaco and across GS to FL that way and had battery life left over.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

Paul L said, "The software on the fixed unit will not update itself and decide to mysteriously hang."

I beg to differ. I had three spontaneous shutdowns by a 2012 Furuno chartplotter in a little over 1000 miles, and zero by the iPad with Garmin BlueChart. One of the Furuno "BlackBox Errors" and shutdowns was approaching Fort Pierce Inlet, but since I always had the iPad on standby, I just used the iPad. As for battery life, get an Anker (or two) external battery to recharge the iPad. I went from Marsh Harbor, through Sea of Abaco and across GS to FL that way and had battery life left over.

Sounds like you hit the tide station continuously displayed bug that was in the early Navnet3d systems. This bug had nothing to do with the unit doing software or firmware update. Phones, tablets Windows 10 etc are notourious for doing unwanted spontaneous updates when they get Internet connected. Your Furuno problem was very different.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by bmz

I know there are some AIS/chart plotter combos that permit class A/B selection, but mine (a new Garmin) and most others don't.

Newsflash: do you really think you can get anywhere with a strawman argument? All I ever said was that class B transponders are hazard--so please don't try to put words in my mouth--but then again that appears to be all you have.

Small boats in periods of good visibility can see each other easily and maneuver around each other easily. They don't need to be cluttering up chart plotters. What we all do need to see are large commercial vessels (class A)--we must yield to them, and they couldn't maneuver away from us if they wanted to. Your transponder provides you with nothing that a receiver only wouldn't regarding them(they don't yield to you). Your statement that an AIS receiver should not be made is simply frivolous.
I recognize that a class B transponder has value in periods of poor visibility; that is why it is only recently that I have come to the conclusion that they shouldn't be sold. If the sailors who owned them used them responsibly, they could be justified. But you can't, and you are destroying a valuable safety feature for our waterways.

So if everyone had a Class A transponder, you would be happy?

I don't want to hit anything, hence the more data I have about what is around me the better.

[Jerry Woodward]

As Paul said, with the Vesper Watchmate, you can filter out irrelevant targets. From the User Manual:

Filters are used to control whether a
target is displayed as an ordinary
target or as a tiny almost-invisible
target.
In busy areas this allows you
to reduce clutter on the screen and
help you to focus on the targets that
are most important.
There are four
filters and a target is shown as an
ordinary target only if it passes each
filter.
At that point the target is
known as "filtered" meaning it will
show up in the count of filtered
targets and will appear on the
screen
as an ordinary target.

[Suijin]

All this about AIS clutter is nonsense in my opinion. Yes in Annapolis and Baltimore there is a lot of it but you don't need it there. If you can't see a 900' RoRo and figure out where you should not be then you're not paying attention.

But transit through a busy area, like the mouth of the Chesapeake or entering Charleston at night and you'll thank God, even if you're an atheist, for AIS.

It's a tool. Use it where you need it and not where you don't. And for FFS turn it off in busy little harbors where it's more of a distraction, to you and those around you, than a help.

[bmz]

Originally Posted by Snore

Most COMPETENT masters and pilots monitor Class B's. I know this since I have had vessels dodge around me in blue water and have heard pilots call AIS recreational vessels by name when they have an issue.

Zoom in to reduce the number of targets or set a CPA alarm and just ignore the display.

Yes, I have heard large vessels call class B vessels too--but only to remind them to steer clear. I have sailed the busy waters of the Chesapeake Bay for 35 years and have yet to see a large vessel dodge around me for two primary reasons: 1) as the stand on vessel, they are required by law to maintain their course; and, 2) they are physically incapable of performing that exercise.

Your "ignore the display" statement again requests others to lose the utility and safety of their chart plotters in order that you can continue to play with your toy.

[bmz]

[QUOTE=Paul L;2455195 It might be destroying a safety feature for you, but it clearly works well for others. Is your issue the excessive AIS symbols on your chartplotter or the AIS alarms being generated? Many plotters have very good alarm profile settings that radically reduce nuisance alarms. Vesper is probably the leader on this feature.
The most cluttered AIS screen I've had to deal with was almost entirely class A. A 100 targets virtually blocking the approach to the Panama Canal. Tricky navigation and difficult to sort out which actual vessel was moving versus all the anchored ones.[/QUOTE]

I now always turn off my alarms; nonetheless all the unnecessary class B tx still clutters up my screen.

There is a huge difference between class A "clutter" and class B. Class A targets you saw at the Panama Canal are the real reason we all have AIS. We ALL have to yield to them at all times. Our safety depends on being able to see and distinguish all class A targets clearly; class B tx interfere with that.

[bmz]

Originally Posted by Jerry Woodward

As Paul said, with the Vesper Watchmate, you can filter out irrelevant targets. From the User Manual:

Filters are used to control whether a
target is displayed as an ordinary
target or as a tiny almost-invisible
target.
In busy areas this allows you
to reduce clutter on the screen and
help you to focus on the targets that
are most important.
There are four
filters and a target is shown as an
ordinary target only if it passes each
filter.
At that point the target is
known as "filtered" meaning it will
show up in the count of filtered
targets and will appear on the
screen
as an ordinary target.

There is another type of clutter sailors like to avoid--binnacle clutter. The great thing about an AIS receiver is that all of the targets are integrated into your chart plotter. All those great features you are talking about require more screens and additional clutter to your binnacle.

[bmz]

Originally Posted by Suijin

All this about AIS clutter is nonsense in my opinion. Yes in Annapolis and Baltimore there is a lot of it but you don't need it there. If you can't see a 900' RoRo and figure out where you should not be then you're not paying attention.

But transit through a busy area, like the mouth of the Chesapeake or entering Charleston at night and you'll thank God, even if you're an atheist, for AIS.

It's a tool. Use it where you need it and not where you don't. And for FFS turn it off in busy little harbors where it's more of a distraction, to you and those around you, than a help.

I am so happy that there are such great sailors like you around Annapolis and Baltimore who don't need their AIS. So, for the benefit of us novices who have only been sailing there for 35-40 years, would you kindly turn off your AIS.


To the OP: an AIS is one of the greatest advancements in safety that has come to boating, particularly because a receiver integrates with your chart plotter and only cost about $200. If you are a powerboater who doesn't mind instrument clutter and who navigates in areas without a lot of class B traffic a class B transponder may be worth the additional investment.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by bmz

Yes, I have heard large vessels call class B vessels too--but only to remind them to steer clear. I have sailed the busy waters of the Chesapeake Bay for 35 years and have yet to see a large vessel dodge around me for two primary reasons: 1) as the stand on vessel, they are required by law to maintain their course; and, 2) they are physically incapable of performing that exercise.



Your "ignore the display" statement again requests others to lose the utility and safety of their chart plotters in order that you can continue to play with your toy.

Please re-read my post. I said vessel in blue water dodged me. Going up to Annapolis they are "constrained by draft" and therefore are the stand-on vessel.

My statement to ignore the display was directed at those who are unable or unwilling to have a proper display or use the tools (CPA or Mk1 eyeball) to identify large vessels that may be approaching.

FWIW, I have delivered up to Annapolis and did run my AIS. At "zero dark 30" a car carrier was coming up the channel and from around the bend asked me to slide to the east as his turn path would bring him close to my projected path.

At this point I will step out of this thread. I find foolish debates to be a waste of electrons and my time.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Sounds like you hit the tide station continuously displayed bug that was in the early Navnet3d systems. This bug had nothing to do with the unit doing software or firmware update. Phones, tablets Windows 10 etc are notourious for doing unwanted spontaneous updates when they get Internet connected. Your Furuno problem was very different.

What you say about tablets and Windows 10 may be the absolute truth - I have no way of knowing, because I have an iPad. The one big update I got on the iPad was done in typical Apple fashion; I was politely asked if I would like to update Garmin BlueCharts. The first time, it was not convenient, so I waited until I was in a marina with wi-fi. Fyi, I'm not sure the issue I experienced with the Furuno is the same as the one you describe, though. It's true I'm one version back on my Furuno software, but based on a conversation in January in which the tech recommended staying with the older version, I did not upgrade. In any event, BlueCharts on iPad has been rock solid for me.

[bmz]

Originally Posted by Snore

Please re-read my post. I said vessel in blue water dodged me. Going up to Annapolis they are "constrained by draft" and therefore are the stand-on vessel.

My statement to ignore the display was directed at those who are unable or unwilling to have a proper display or use the tools (CPA or Mk1 eyeball) to identify large vessels that may be approaching.

FWIW, I have delivered up to Annapolis and did run my AIS. At "zero dark 30" a car carrier was coming up the channel and from around the bend asked me to slide to the east as his turn path would bring him close to my projected path.

At this point I will step out of this thread. I find foolish debates to be a waste of electrons and my time.

Large commercial vessels are constrained by their lack of maneuverability and are therefore always the stand on vessel, even in blue water.

My chart plotter identifies class A targets; nonetheless, class B clutter can obscure their vectors and potential collision intercepts. Moreover, class B clutter has long ago forced me to turn off my audible alarms.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by bmz

Large commercial vessels are constrained by their lack of maneuverability and are therefore always the stand on vessel, even in blue water.

My chart plotter identifies class A targets; nonetheless, class B clutter can obscure their vectors and potential collision intercepts. Moreover, class B clutter has long ago forced me to turn off my audible alarms.

Reread the Colregs. This is just a false statement.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by bmz

Large commercial vessels are constrained by their lack of maneuverability and are therefore always the stand on vessel, even in blue water.

My chart plotter identifies class A targets; nonetheless, class B clutter can obscure their vectors and potential collision intercepts. Moreover, class B clutter has long ago forced me to turn off my audible alarms.

What are you going to do when all the ATONs are broadcasting and on your screen along with all the Class A/B vessels?

You keep suggesting Class B transponders turn their units off, it may save you some stress if you simply turn your receiver off.