Advice needed on AIS

[barnakiel]

Visibility of MOB, to the naked eye: 0.1 Nm,
vs.
Visibility of MOB, AIS or DSC beacon, 4 Nm,

I think the above is self-explanatory.

(PS You do not need one if you go solo: hahahahahaha!!!!!)

Now re radar or AIS readout being everywhere due to lack of heading sensor: switch to head-up orientation.

If you can afford technology that you may need, have it. If you have it, learn to use it and know&understand its limitations.

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by GarthGregory

I need some advice , before an Atlantic crossing ( possibly singlehanded ) -
I am looking to fit Radar any suggestions on the best make or brand and power consumption and are they worth the cost.

Looking at the threads it seems that AIS send/receive might be a better option ,again suggestions as to the best brand and the power consumption.
Any help with type ,mounting ,screens ,power etc would be a great help.
Cheers G.

I would look at:

Furuno wifi radar dome: I believe consumption 2A or thereabout.

Vesper AIS wifi transponder: (black box version).

Both devices can be optionally read and controlled directly from an iPad. Off course you may want a waterproof sleeve for your iPad.

As they are wireless, you save on cabling & on installation time / cost / effort.

If for any reason you do not want the mobile option, look at Furuno 1623. In the AIS department the choices are just too many. Possibly consider a standalone transceiver like an ICOM or a Simrad.

b.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There are actually more issues then you have alluded to.

The first is the primary recipient of a DSC distress is the shore erased coastguard infrastructure, not other ships, under GMDSS, ships are actually suppose to wait for a CG response before getting involved. If the CG cannot raise the MOB for whatever reason, then a rescue asset can and is often dispatched.

Futhermore, many ships will on not hearing a CG voice response, follow the recommended procedure, enacting a MAYDAY relay. Again with confusing responses and the MMSI will indicate that it is a VESSEL in distress.

AIS SART on the other hand has a specific code for MOB. And AIS will not in itself begin a rescue alert.

It gets even worse if a ship relays a VHF DSC via HF etc etc.

Don't quite understand why you think this would be confusing.
First point is that we where talking about MOB systems for voyaging. Given the range of either system it is unlikely that any other vessel will hear either alert.
In costal waters standard procedure is that, on getting a MOB alert via AIS you would immediately relay that as a MOB alert via DSC to other ships/coastgaurd. So they would be receiving the same call but via a ship instead of direct. Agreed this would give a slightly different GPS coordinates as origin is casualty not the ship sending the relay but I can't see how this is going to be a problem. The MMSI number would also designate that this is a mobile station but linked to you vessel so they will know who the MOB belongs to. If you send an undesignated distress call either from the casualty then the first question back will be 'what is the nature of your distress' so it will quickly be clarified as MOB alert.
This is my understanding from UK training but I thought it was under SOLAS so the same for all countries. Do yo use a different procedure?

You seem to suggest that MOB is somehow not a 'vessel in distress' my understanding is that any situation where there is an immediate risk to life is classed as a vessel in distress, hence the list; fire, sinking, MOB etc. The vessel is in distress due to loosing a MOB and needs assistance to recover them.

You also have the option, if you both those left on board and the person in the water judge that there is little risk, of simply calling your own ship or polling the radio to achieve a pickup without any distress call so nobody else is involved. SAR/Coastguard do not recomend this and would prefer you to send a distress massage and cancel it after successful recovery.

[barnakiel]

Today I have done some "research" for a sailing friend. I have found the following:

- one can buy a wifi capable AIS B transponder / NMEA multiplexer,
- one can buy an AIS capable DSC VHF,
- one can wire the two units together.

This is what we can get then:

- an active AIS B unit (a 'free' extra: N2K/NMEA moxer!),
- a VHF that will display AND contact AIS ships via DSC,
- wifi AIS/GPS/DSC/nav data onboard,
- all the above is IPX-7.

Total cost about USD 1100.

Life is sweet. Sailing is safer.

Cheers,
b.

[jeffrobbins]

Regarding DSC calling of AIS targets... a little known thing... if you connect an XB-8000 to a supported VHF (all current model fixed-mount Icom's) you can initiate a DSC call directly from the XB-8000 via apps on your tablet.

It will be in the next release of NavPlay that is just about to come out and will be demoed at Miami International Boat Show this week.

Touch a target on the iPad and tell it to place a DSC call.

As a result, you don't need a VHF with an AIS receiver for this. Although a VHF with AIS input that has direct target calling will do it from the VHF radio as suggested.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by jeffrobbins

Regarding DSC calling of AIS targets... a little known thing... if you connect an XB-8000 to a supported VHF (all current model fixed-mount Icom's) you can initiate a DSC call directly from the XB-8000 via apps on your tablet.

It will be in the next release of NavPlay that is just about to come out and will be demoed at Miami International Boat Show this week.

Touch a target on the iPad and tell it to place a DSC call.

As a result, you don't need a VHF with an AIS receiver for this. Although a VHF with AIS input that has direct target calling will do it from the VHF radio as suggested.

Another good reason to go with a Vesper.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by downunder

Another good reason to go with a Vesper.

Not only.

SH, ICOM, B&G, Simrad all offer the same functionality (DSC calling of AIS targets). I am not sure about Ray.

b.

[colemj]

It should be pointed out that NavPlay is a paid application - $5 for the app, $40 per chart region, and $45 yearly subscription. And you must be happy with the app and not want to use another one instead.

So one must add in that initial $100, and the continuing yearly $45 into consideration of just buying a VHF with AIS/DSC calling built in.

Personally, if I need to contact an AIS target, I do not want to pull out my tablet, open an app and initiate a call - then go to my radio to actually talk. I want to just pick up my mic, highlight the AIS target on the radio and push "call".

Mark

[fjwiley1]

I'm with you Mark....sometimes "new technology" isn't the best thing to have but then I'm old too......Hard to beat picking up the remote mic to call a "target"......

Life is good if you Keepa Smilin...😊




Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[jeffrobbins]

SH, ICOM, B&G, Simrad all offer the same functionality (DSC calling of AIS targets). I am not sure about Ray.

SH VHF w/AIS is receive-only and not a transponder. Icom doesn't have WiFi so must be done from the display. Simrad AI50 can do this but like the Icom can only be done on the dedicated display. Not sure about Navico GoFree or Raymarine apps with their respective VHF radios.

It should be pointed out that NavPlay is a paid application - $5 for the app, $40 per chart region, and $45 yearly subscription. And you must be happy with the app and not want to use another one instead.

Yes, I should have said that NavPlay is a paid app. Although the new version being unveiled this week has all the NOAA vector charts and includes a region for free. Additional regions are $3 or the whole US is $15.

To give it a try you do need to pay the initial download cost of $6 which includes any one chart region. You get a free subscription with an XB-8000 so you can see if you like it before committing to any other expense.

The XB-8000 supports DSC calling via its API so NavPlay is the first app to take advantage of its ability to place DSC calls remotely. Other apps are also coming. And OpenCPN could also easily do this if someone wants to add it. If you do, just get in touch with me and I'll give you the details on what to send to the XB-8000 or Vision.

Personally, if I need to contact an AIS target, I do not want to pull out my tablet, open an app and initiate a call - then go to my radio to actually talk. I want to just pick up my mic, highlight the AIS target on the radio and push "call".

I absolutely agree, but if you are already using a tablet or OpenCPN for navigation and it's on all the time then it's certainly easier to just touch a target to call. In that case you won't have to use the tiny screen interface on the VHF itself.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by jeffrobbins

(...)

I absolutely agree, but if you are already using a tablet or OpenCPN for navigation and it's on all the time then it's certainly easier to just touch a target to call. In that case you won't have to use the tiny screen interface on the VHF itself.

(...)

I absolutely agree, but if you ever used a tablet on a boat then you must have noticed that on a bumpy and wet ride it is next to impossible to use the touch interface. So it is OK as a plotter but sucks big way as a control device. Push a physical button wins hands down!

Unless the APP interface has been built around this obvious (to sailors, not to developers) limitation. Which is not the case with the Apps I have used this far.

So, in my book, the perfect set up is: a tablet for visual awareness, a radio for initiating the call.

b.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by jeffrobbins

Yes, I should have said that NavPlay is a paid app. Although the new version being unveiled this week has all the NOAA vector charts and includes a region for free. Additional regions are $3 or the whole US is $15.

To give it a try you do need to pay the initial download cost of $6 which includes any one chart region. You get a free subscription with an XB-8000 so you can see if you like it before committing to any other expense.

Jeff,

If I understand the above correctly, this is a significant cost change for that program. Are you saying that when one pays the $5 for the application, one gets all the US NOAA charts PLUS one other region?

And that other regions are now only $3?

As it currently stands, the app costs $5, the NOAA charts cost $40, and all other regions cost $40 (a couple cost $45).

So if my understanding is correct, one could get the program, US NOAA charts and (say) the entire Caribbean and Central America for $8?

I have a sad feeling that I have misunderstood you…

Is this still a subscription model where continued use of the program will cost $45/yr?

Mark

[jeffrobbins]

Originally Posted by colemj

Are you saying that when one pays the $5 for the application, one gets all the US NOAA charts PLUS one other region?

And that other regions are now only $3?

Not quite. They are introducing a new version based on the NOAA vector charts. The new version costs $6.99 to download and includes any one region you choose (54 x 54 nm). Additional regions are $2.99 (maximum - some are less). Or you can buy all the NOAA charts for $14.99.

That gives you permanent use of all the charts and most features and but some navigation and instrument display features are by subscription. Here's a link to a list of what you get with the initial download vs. subscription: List of NavPlay features and environments. I'm not sure if it's 100% up-to-date with the new version as that hasn't been announced publicly yet.

However, you can try everything for 15 days at no cost other than the $7 download. If you own an XB-8000 or Vision you can then use everything for another 90 days. After that you can either continue to use it forever in the free mode or you can subscribe to the extra features.

[Wannabe-007]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would look at:

Furuno wifi radar dome: I believe consumption 2A or thereabout.

Vesper AIS wifi transponder: (black box version).

Both devices can be optionally read and controlled directly from an iPad. Off course you may want a waterproof sleeve for your iPad.

As they are wireless, you save on cabling & on installation time / cost / effort.

If for any reason you do not want the mobile option, look at Furuno 1623...

...and for those of us who have not bitten the apple... who are Android and/or PC based?

Can we make the wireless radar talk to Vespers wireless AIS and then talk to my C80? ...or to my Android phone / nav tablet and/or my OpenCPN?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Wannabe-007

...and for those of us who have not bitten the apple... who are Android and/or PC based?

Can we make the wireless radar talk to Vespers wireless AIS and then talk to my C80? ...or to my Android phone / nav tablet and/or my OpenCPN?

??? Maybe. Having read and re-read my earlier post I found this flaw too: it will not be as easy as just turning to another App. For Vesper and Furuno will be on two separate networks. I think maybe perhaps Furuno will patch this by allowing their wifi radar to join existing networks. They may, as limiting the networking capacity and the choice of mobile platforms will do no good for their sales figures. b.