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Old 26-10-2016, 20:24   #1
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2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

So my first HX870 slid off the cascade 36 out on the Columbia river after a jibe. It fell in the water and floated but it was almost dusk and impossible to find.

Here it is several months later and bought a replacement HX870, I went and entered the same MMSI number only to then go DOH. I should have issued another number.

If by chance some one on the Columbia river gets that radio and uses its DSC function ...... guess I might get the radio back.

Is this really an issue that I should get a new number for this new radio?

Any thoughts?

Basically there are two HX870's both with the same MMSI number, one in my possession, and one possible in another persons possession. The registrations both lead to my contact information.
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Old 26-10-2016, 22:51   #2
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re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

I'd vote on the side of paranoia, and I suspect that if you ask nicely, Standard Horizon will even clear the program on your new one for free, as a customer courtesy. Then de-register the old MMSI and put in an all new one. Or (I don't recall what provision there is for notes on the MMSI reg form) if you can, keep the old registration intact but indicate RADIO LOST AT SEA and that the old registration is just being kept so that the radio can be returned to you if found. You might also ask Standard Horizon if they can register it as being lost--so if the finder cleverly sends it in for reprogramming? SH gives you a call instead.
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Old 26-10-2016, 23:01   #3
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re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

I could be shakey on this, but is the MMSI number not issued to the ship, not the specific radio? All the various radios on board our boat have the same MMSI... main VHF, hand held VHF, AIS... all the same.

So, what is the worry about the two handhelds with the same MMSI?

Jim
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Old 26-10-2016, 23:28   #4
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re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I could be shakey on this, but is the MMSI number not issued to the ship, not the specific radio? All the various radios on board our boat have the same MMSI... main VHF, hand held VHF, AIS... all the same.

So, what is the worry about the two handhelds with the same MMSI?

Jim
In Aus, AMSA now prefer to issue separate MMSIs for handheld VHFs:

"
AMSA recognises the safety potential of VHF marine transceivers with DSC capability. AMSA's policy for these units are to allocate MMSIs to individual radio transceivers rather than to a single vessel-specific MMSI (on a case-by-case basis). In Australia, until January 2012, these transceivers' maritime identities had the format 5039xxxxx where x is any figure from 0 to 9.From January 2012, Australian handheld VHF transceivers with DSC now use the maritime identity format 8503xxxxx, where x is any figure from 0 to 9, in accordance with Recommendation ITU-R M.585-6, Annex II, Section I.
When a handheld VHF transceiver with DSC changes ownership, AMSA is to be advised of the new owner's details.
Please note that handheld VHF transceivers with DSC are issued to persons, rather than vessels, in recognition that these transceivers can move between vessels."
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Old 27-10-2016, 00:04   #5
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
In Aus, AMSA now prefer to issue separate MMSIs for handheld VHFs:

"
AMSA recognises the safety potential of VHF marine transceivers with DSC capability. AMSA's policy for these units are to allocate MMSIs to individual radio transceivers rather than to a single vessel-specific MMSI (on a case-by-case basis). In Australia, until January 2012, these transceivers' maritime identities had the format 5039xxxxx where x is any figure from 0 to 9.From January 2012, Australian handheld VHF transceivers with DSC now use the maritime identity format 8503xxxxx, where x is any figure from 0 to 9, in accordance with Recommendation ITU-R M.585-6, Annex II, Section I.
When a handheld VHF transceiver with DSC changes ownership, AMSA is to be advised of the new owner's details.
Please note that handheld VHF transceivers with DSC are issued to persons, rather than vessels, in recognition that these transceivers can move between vessels."
Interesting! We're US rego and licensed... I wonder if they have made that change too? Hey! one of you resident Yanks should know about that... I suppose that I should too! What AMSA says makes some sense, too

The OP is a Yank, driving Yank boats AFAIK, and so would likely be bound by Yank rules.

Jim
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Old 27-10-2016, 06:39   #6
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackconsult View Post
So my first HX870 slid off the cascade 36 out on the Columbia river after a jibe. It fell in the water and floated but it was almost dusk and impossible to find.

Here it is several months later and bought a replacement HX870, I went and entered the same MMSI number only to then go DOH. I should have issued another number.

If by chance some one on the Columbia river gets that radio and uses its DSC function ...... guess I might get the radio back.

Is this really an issue that I should get a new number for this new radio?

Any thoughts?

Basically there are two HX870's both with the same MMSI number, one in my possession, and one possible in another persons possession. The registrations both lead to my contact information.

Are these FCC-issued MMSIs, or BoatUS-issues numbers?

Which boat did you tie the first portable radio to?

In any case, my first guess is that if anyone tried to use the MMSI/distress features of the first radio, unless they had already sent it back to the manufacturer for reprogramming, they would appear to rescuers as you (whatever boat you registered with it). IOW, not much good for them, maybe, at least for rescue-related functions.

My second guess is that your second radio is now automatically associated (via MMSI) with whatever boat you associated with the first radio... so if that's the way you want it, you probably have no big issue.

Another point comes to mind, though. I see you have several boats mentioned up near your avatar... so the MMSI of the handheld may not always be associated with the boat you're actually on at any given time? If so, maybe an issue for thought?

The generic "2 radios and same MMSI" doesn't seem to be a big deal by itself. Our two fixed VHFs are both programmed with the same number... intentionally (each reports lat/long slightly differently, on purpose)... and also that's partly because our FCC "Radio Station Authorization (SA - Ship Recreational or Voluntary)" only assigns us one MMSI for the boat.

Finally, I'm not aware of any recent FCC change to assign handhelds to people rather than stations (boats), but I haven't checked recently. The FCC website would likely have that info...

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Old 27-10-2016, 09:45   #7
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
In Aus, AMSA now prefer to issue separate MMSIs for handheld VHFs:

"
AMSA recognises the safety potential of VHF marine transceivers with DSC capability. AMSA's policy for these units are to allocate MMSIs to individual radio transceivers rather than to a single vessel-specific MMSI (on a case-by-case basis). In Australia, until January 2012, these transceivers' maritime identities had the format 5039xxxxx where x is any figure from 0 to 9.From January 2012, Australian handheld VHF transceivers with DSC now use the maritime identity format 8503xxxxx, where x is any figure from 0 to 9, in accordance with Recommendation ITU-R M.585-6, Annex II, Section I.
When a handheld VHF transceiver with DSC changes ownership, AMSA is to be advised of the new owner's details.
Please note that handheld VHF transceivers with DSC are issued to persons, rather than vessels, in recognition that these transceivers can move between vessels."
In Canada, handhelds can have a separate number called an MI. The reason is that a lot of handheld VHFs are not associated with a specific vessel: think dockmasters, pilots or sailing instructors who need a VHF but move from vessel to vessel: CPC-2-3-07 — Obtaining Identities in the Maritime Mobile Service - Spectrum Management and Telecommunications

I don't know if there is a U.S. equivalent.
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Old 27-10-2016, 09:47   #8
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I could be shakey on this, but is the MMSI number not issued to the ship, not the specific radio? All the various radios on board our boat have the same MMSI... main VHF, hand held VHF, AIS... all the same.

So, what is the worry about the two handhelds with the same MMSI?

Jim
That is correct. (at least in the US). The MMSI number is issued to a vessel, not a radio. Should be no issue at all installing the MMSI for your boat in a new radio.
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Old 27-10-2016, 11:19   #9
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

+1 for all radios on your vessel should have the same MMSI in the USA anyway.

From BoatUS
"The MMSI number is a bit like a phone number for your boat, and all DSC capable equipment (including AIS units) associated with the specific vessel should use the same MMSI number, since the MMSI serves to identify the vessel, not the equipment. If you sell your boat, the MMSI number is normally transferred with it."
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Old 27-10-2016, 13:54   #10
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Well after talking with my electronics guru here at JT marine (love working in a ship yard), he thinks its probably a moot point anyways. Given its IP rating .....

A rugged die-cast chassis and a waterproof rating of IPX8 allowing submersion of the radio to 4.92 feet for 30 minutes without causing internal or external damage the HX870 is ready for whatever you throw its way.

It probably sat in the water for longer than 30 mintues which means it probably got water ingress (given how close we were to Astoria this would include salt water). So it is probably dead and gone.
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Old 27-10-2016, 14:40   #11
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

From my understanding of the ITU regulations and from my UK Ships Radio Licence (issued by the Office of Communications) a handheld DSC VHF should have its own MMSI number, distinct from the MMSI issued to the vessels fixed VHF.

I'm also thinking that EPRIBs should also have an individual MMSI as they are radio transmitters but I am not 100% on this.

If there are 2 fixed VHF units on board and both are capable of transmitting independently then my thinking would be both need individual MMSIs but if one was a slave to the other then effectively they are 1 unit so a single number would suffice. Again this is just my interpretation.

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Old 27-10-2016, 15:04   #12
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackconsult View Post
So my first HX870 slid off the cascade 36 out on the Columbia river after a jibe. It fell in the water and floated but it was almost dusk and impossible to find.

Here it is several months later and bought a replacement HX870, I went and entered the same MMSI number only to then go DOH. I should have issued another number.

If by chance some one on the Columbia river gets that radio and uses its DSC function ...... guess I might get the radio back.

Is this really an issue that I should get a new number for this new radio?

Any thoughts?

Basically there are two HX870's both with the same MMSI number, one in my possession, and one possible in another persons possession. The registrations both lead to my contact information.

From Industry Canada website:

"There are two main types of identities: the maritime mobile service identity (MMSI) and the maritime identity (MI).

The MMSI may be assigned to ship stations, including hand-held very high frequency (VHF) transceivers with DSC and a global navigation satellite system (GNSS) operating on board; coast stations; aircraft participating in search and rescue operations; automatic identification system (AIS) aids to navigation; and craft associated with a parent ship.

The MI is used to identify other maritime devices, such as hand-held VHF transceivers with DSC and GNSS not associated with a specific ship station; AIS search and rescue transmitters (AIS-SARTs); man overboard (MOB) devices; and emergency position-indicating radio beacons that use AIS technology (EPIRB-AIS)."

It sounds like up here you can get two MMSI's or just one plus a MI.
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Old 27-10-2016, 15:13   #13
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

So if the US requires to only have one MMSI per boat. Could you get another for the dinghy and program that into the handheld?


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Old 27-10-2016, 15:22   #14
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

MMSI follows the boat and owner info. Multiple radios on the same boat are no problem. If you get a new boat, you probably should get a new number. If you carry the radio over from the old vessel, call the MMSI authority you have it registered to and get their advice.
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Old 28-10-2016, 21:39   #15
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Re: 2 DSC radios with the same MMSI number

FWIW I have programmed the MMSI into both mu Icom IC-M604 and a Standard Horizon HX851.

In each case...I can call the other radio with the MMSI on DSC, it works fine. If both radios are on when someone calls me, they will both make noise.

But...no one ever really uses DSC private station calling anyway that I've seen.

Having the MMSI on both radios has not proved a problem.
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