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Old 26-08-2013, 07:27   #16
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

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The article suggested as much Mimsy. Less options for jobs is making more people decide to cruise. It also sounded like cruisiing was a relatively short term thing to help people find out what they wanted to do with their lives and gain them skills to return home with. I was curious Boatguy if that was the case as well. The numbers might not really have changed a whole lot.

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I initially skipped this article (the title implied like this is the new dot.com trend) but read it after I saw the post on CF. Few observations:

I would agree with some comments about the overall decline. Sailboat sales were worst affected during the last recession (almost 50% decline) and the rise in upkeep costs (there is no inflation, right?) results into more bargains on the second-hand market. Great majority of the people I know would choose a motor boat vs a sail-boat because there is 'less work'

On the other hand, if somebody in their 20s can afford a decent boat, it is either that they had a great jobs or come from a well-off background. After all it is still an expensive hobby.

If you look for like-minded people, you would eventually find them. I admire all folks (especially if they are younger), to cut loose from land and cast-off in the unknown.

I have always associated sailing with freedom (and adventure), and long-term cruising as a real example of that. It was a bit disappointing to read that somebody would love to get home and become a politician to make the laws. Do we need yet more laws? Law is contrary to freedom. I would never associate a politician with sailing
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Old 26-08-2013, 08:09   #17
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

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On the other hand, if somebody in their 20s can afford a decent boat, it is either that they had a great jobs or come from a well-off background. After all it is still an expensive hobby.
Perception problem right there. Sailing/cruising can be done on a modest budget IF one goes for a small and/or old boat. Our annual cost of boat ownership, everything in (insurance, consumables, club) has been less than the annual cost of smoking cigarettes. Our costs will be going up by about $1k a year because we've now got a club slip, but the total annual cost is still below what most people spend to golf or ski.

So, you'd think that this would be the entry point for young people - get/inherit a beater, and just start doing stuff. And many young people like the sport and camaraderie of boat racing.

I think a bigger factor, though, is that sailing/cruising has more appeal to someone who has been there, done that, has/had a career, raised a family, and are drawn to something sustaining that can be enjoyed well into retirement age. I've always liked sailing and boats, and I wish we had bought a boat sooner, but I think I appreciate and enjoy it more because we're in our 50s.
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Old 26-08-2013, 09:40   #18
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

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Perception problem right there. Sailing/cruising can be done on a modest budget IF one goes for a small and/or old boat. Our annual cost of boat ownership, everything in (insurance, consumables, club) has been less than the annual cost of smoking cigarettes. Our costs will be going up by about $1k a year because we've now got a club slip, but the total annual cost is still below what most people spend to golf or ski.
It may well be a perception problem. Not that I disagree but from my point of view some minimum level of comfort is required.


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I think a bigger factor, though, is that sailing/cruising has more appeal to someone who has been there, done that, has/had a career, raised a family, and are drawn to something sustaining that can be enjoyed well into retirement age. I've always liked sailing and boats, and I wish we had bought a boat sooner, but I think I appreciate and enjoy it more because we're in our 50s.
Agreed - this probably explains why most of the cruisers fall in the above category.
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Old 26-08-2013, 10:08   #19
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

I'm 34 and would love to cruise but I'm just starting out in sailing. My job doesn't allow me to be gone for very long so until I can retire I will be limited to where I can go. It's not something I can do remotely.

I plan to retire when I'm 55 so in 15 years or so I'l be looking to buy my retirement home on the water. I won't be young any more but young enough and hopefully experienced enough to live a long time on the water.
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Old 26-08-2013, 10:24   #20
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My wife and I are both 33yo and moved aboard with our 3yo son bout 3.5 years ago, and have since added a new crew member who is now 9 months old, and she knows only living onboard.

Our son, as do we, love the lifestyle and have no intention of giving it up. We were sick and tired of working all week, paying the mortgage and all associated bills, 2 cars and all their expenses and had talked about cruising on a yacht since we first met.

Put simply, we were sick of having no money left to enjoy life!!!

We travelled extensively just after we met and lived in a lot of different countries, most quite poor, but we loved the simplicity of life and how happy the people were with so little compared to western cultures. So we sold the house (just covered the mortgage), saw an older boat with an excellent history and went for it!! Never looked back. I grew up sailing and my wife and kids love it. And we are not from rich upbringings or have fantastic well paid jobs, but we can get work worldwide, keep the boat in great condition, food on the table, and I get to spend more time with my family than most people.

My question to younger people is why aren't there more of you enjoying a simple lifestyle rather then trying to keep up with the Jones'????
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Old 26-08-2013, 14:12   #21
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

Man is born free,but found everywhere in chains........Rousseau.......

I don't think I can improve on that!
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Old 26-08-2013, 14:13   #22
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

How come 'fewer jobs makes them go cruising'???

How can they cruise without jobs? Them be millionaires?

If them millionaires, how come they care about fewer jobs?

The article is inconsistent with s.c. common sense.

Prior to retirement one can only cruise if there are MORE jobs around. Unless filthy rich.

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Old 26-08-2013, 16:22   #23
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

Why would one choose to sail when one could spend their entire working day loading inanities on Facebook, texting inconsequential tweets and mind numbing nonsense on their cell phones, shopping for designer labels in the shopping malls on a credit card over limit, dining in five star restaurants with the culinary expertise of Black Plague peasant, aimlessly driving their space pod automobiles in circles to nowhere, relaxing with a manicure, pedicure and facial in preparation for an evening of Dancing with the Stars and Turtleman. Why are there not more young people in sailing? I really don't know.
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Old 26-08-2013, 16:28   #24
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Why would one choose to sail when one could spend their entire working day loading inanities on Facebook, texting inconsequential tweets and mind numbing nonsense on their cell phones, shopping for designer labels in the shopping malls on a credit card over limit, dining in five star restaurants with the culinary expertise of Black Plague peasant, aimlessly driving their space pod automobiles in circles to nowhere, relaxing with a manicure, pedicure and facial in preparation for an evening of Dancing with the Stars and Turtleman. Why are there not more young people in sailing? I really don't know.
I think you meant
How would one be able to sail when the previous generation has made sure it's as close to impossible as could be to get ahead, with deliberately low hours to avoid providing benefits, no pensions, high interest debt as easy as possible to get, low interest on any savings?
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Old 26-08-2013, 16:50   #25
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

There may be two different communities looking at the demographics of age and sailing. Those that have houses and jobs and lives ashore would find sailing an added expense and maybe too much too add to their budget,- a boat, a slip, an assigned vacation time to cruise, all the equipment and learning, club membership,....? Then there's the other goup that I know and to which I've been a member for 42 years. ....live on the boat, keep a job, cruise when you have the time, pay less, have more discressionary income. For some sailing is an expensive hobby and for others it's an opportunity to have more for less cost. I know quite a few young people still having more for less.
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Old 26-08-2013, 16:51   #26
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

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I think you meant
How would one be able to sail when the previous generation has made sure it's as close to impossible as could be to get ahead, with deliberately low hours to avoid providing benefits, no pensions, high interest debt as easy as possible to get, low interest on any savings?

JG, It's not really what I meant . . . but, I'd be a fool to disagree with your above statement. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 26-08-2013, 22:01   #27
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

I find this an interesting post. I'm no Bernard Moitessier... Learning my own limitations everyday. I'm a coastal cruiser for some 18 years now.
I've not read the article which was referenced but i will offer a recent conversation.

In the 1980's, unfettered by any debt and after completing my undergrad, i set out and spent 2 years traveling across the USA with limited money, but i could do it...do it well...live, eat etc. and if i found myself in trouble, i could get a job.....and carry on.... Camping out and visiting most of the major cities in the United States. 2 Years.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of 25 year old guys...and this subject came up.
They looked at me as if i landed from another world.
After talking with them, it was all too clear this sort of freedom is not even on their radar screen.

Two thoughts come to my mind.
1st: they became the ideal consumerists and care more about their iphone bill than their freedom.
But i sort of know these guys and don't believe this as the answer.
It is clear they aspire to something more......the basis of the conversation.

2nd (and this they clearly expressed): they cannot afford to do the things i could at their age.
This i believe is true.

Without turning this into a political problem, and having a daughter their age, I'm saddened by their reality.

Where my generation saw possibility: They see obstacles.
And this speaks volumes for me.
oh hell turn it as political as you want.
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Old 26-08-2013, 22:54   #28
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I find this an interesting post. I'm no Bernard Moitessier... Learning my own limitations everyday. I'm a coastal cruiser for some 18 years now.
I've not read the article which was referenced but i will offer a recent conversation.

In the 1980's, unfettered by any debt and after completing my undergrad, i set out and spent 2 years traveling across the USA with limited money, but i could do it...do it well...live, eat etc. and if i found myself in trouble, i could get a job.....and carry on.... Camping out and visiting most of the major cities in the United States. 2 Years.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of 25 year old guys...and this subject came up.
They looked at me as if i landed from another world.
After talking with them, it was all too clear this sort of freedom is not even on their radar screen.

Two thoughts come to my mind.
1st: they became the ideal consumerists and care more about their iphone bill than their freedom.
But i sort of know these guys and don't believe this as the answer.
It is clear they aspire to something more......the basis of the conversation.

2nd (and this they clearly expressed): they cannot afford to do the things i could at their age.
This i believe is true.

Without turning this into a political problem, and having a daughter their age, I'm saddened by their reality.

Where my generation saw possibility: They see obstacles.
And this speaks volumes for me.
oh hell turn it as political as you want.
No let's NOT turn it political... That is against forum rules and will get post deleted.

People make choices as to the lifestyle they live.

As example, both of my 30 something year old children, are in a family situation were the mothers are stay at home moms.

The choices both of them have made is that they don't take have the holidays, make sure they have no debt, they live within their means, and if they buy something they pay it in cash including the brand new vehicles.

And both cases the only debt they have is a mortgage is on their newer homes.

They are not a doctors or lawyers or such; my son is a trades person whereas my son in law works with the government.

It is choices they and their wives made. Both of the wives are professionals, my daughters a teacher, my daughter in law is a nurse. A conscious decision not to keep up with the Joneses but to live within your means was made. It felt it was better for the children, my grandchildren, to have the stay at home moms. I agree. That was the same way my kids were raised.


Unfortunately many individuals and couples do not get that concept and as a result exhibit the defeatist attitude that the two 25-year-olds you referenced have.
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Old 26-08-2013, 23:02   #29
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Re: Young Yachties-Sail article

completely incorrect
they are not defeatist as you assume - they are bright, frustrated and dismayed.
as far as the political is concerned I'm frankly sick and tired of this PC crap. call it what it is
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Old 26-08-2013, 23:23   #30
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completely incorrect
they are not defeatist as you assume - they are bright, frustrated and dismayed.
as far as the political is concerned I'm frankly sick and tired of this PC crap. call it what it is
But it does come down to choices. My 29 year old nephew just got married. He is an aeronautical engineer. He had it easy... right.

Nooooo...he had to make choices. Choices which included living in the bush summers planting trees for 7 years for the education, and then continue because he could not find a job initially. He didn't give up. He worked hard to earn the money to pay for the education. Planting those trees took him to remote areas far away from home, however, he took the jobs because through hard work he earned good money. As a result he now has a good education and a good job. He is only 4 years older than your example of the to 25-year-olds who are frustrated and dissolutioned.

It does come down to choices it doesn't it?
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