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Old 13-02-2013, 14:43   #46
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Re: Yacht club rant

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That is a subjective thing, what is not loud to you may be unbearable to your neighbors.

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Ain't that the truth!
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:52   #47
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Re: Yacht club rant

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Show up for the board meeting. Bring your case to them. Have a copy of the bylaws in hand. Ask that a key be issued to you. If no key then ask what action will need to be done.

If you cannot get satisfaction and the bylaws do not allow the denial of keys consider getting legal consul and suing for breach of contract to get your money back along with damages. That may be enough to get some motion but is a last resort.

Also, talk to the board members before going to the board meeting and see if they are supportive.
Aieeee. The nuclear option. Are you a lawyer by chance?

At the end of the day, this is a "club", supposedly of like-minded individuals sharing a common interest. OP has been hung out to dry over a relatively small but possibly chronic lapse on the part of his co-owner. Situation has apparently been heightened by some heated discussions between OP and club.

(makes me wonder why the guy needed a new co-owner...also being "away for the winter" is no excuse for not paying. It's 2013...)

Not a good start. Lawyering up will help no-one (but lawyers). If I was in the OP's shoes:
- if it's worth remaining a co-owner of this boat and staying at this club, I would sit down with president or senior board member, try to discuss how to move forward, and be prepared to cough up for any back-fees on slip. Get reimbursed from delinquent co-owner, and make agreement for future payments.
- if I like club and boat but not partner, and club will promote you to senior member with slip... buy partner out.
- find another boat and/or club

if the problem's not smoothed out amicably, there will always be bad blood between the OP and the club. Where's the fun in that?
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Old 13-02-2013, 15:14   #48
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

I had an associate membership many years ago--not in one of the clubs to which I currently belong. Associate memberships were for non-boat owners who crewed for members. The club was pretty clear on the restrictions: no moorage, no parking privileges, no vote, no reciprocity with other clubs, and I couldn't charge via a club chit. All it really gave me was the opportunity to grind winches in club races, and a place to shower afterwords, as well as a chance to engage in palm-sailing in the saloon after a race. Oh yes, and a key, but if I wanted to go to the annual Commodore's Ball to collect trophies, I had to go as a guest of a member.

It was some of the best money I ever spent, and it gave me the opportunity to race to my heart's content before I could afford a boat of my own. But I was never confused about my status: I was not a member of the club. I hadn't bought into the club fully, and the club hadn't fully bought into me. Aboard any member's yacht my spot was at the winches, not behind the wheel.

It sounds as if the OP is a bit confused about his status as an associate member. Perhaps a bit more research would help. I can't imagine a club being unclear about how much bang you get for the buck.
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Old 13-02-2013, 15:28   #49
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

It is nice to get so many varied responses, rather than a dogpile either way (ie. Screw the club, or, screw you).

An associate cannot obtain moorage, gets keys and can crew and attend events. A full member must live within the boundaries of the city, pays double, can get moorage, of course gets keys and can attend events.

As an associate, i am not a joint owner as i cannot have mooring priveliges. Partner could say the boat is out of the slip and putting a new boat in the slip leaving me slipless at his discretion. If this happened i would still be an associate member as my connection to the slip or having a boat at dock has nothing to do with my membership (other than that i cant apply for moorage).

Lawyering up is not an option, as i said before because this is a club and its supposed to be fun and social. Ironically, the same reason lawyering up is completely off the table, is the reason im so annoyed - because a flat refusal to give ME keys until PARTNER pays without any flexibility at all (ie. Warning me, warning his wife, giving me keys and telling me to chase down partner, other options) seems a bit brutal and draconian given that i am a fully paid associate in good standing and partner is a long time member known to be out of country at this time. If i had to lawyer up it would only be to get my boat out of there for good.

It is true, however, that in the bylaws and rules, even the notices, there is no mention of co-ownership other than that the co-owner must also be an associate or full member; this is for their liability insurance and due to policy that non members may not be on the docks as a guest without the member present. I can read the literature upside down and sideways and there is no reference to interconnecting two co owners with their own memberships and, say, considering one member as no longer in good standing if the co owner is not in good standing. Hence i was entirely blindsided and infuriated because due to the tardyness in payment by the co owner i have had virtually all of my membership priveliges revoked, in effect, my membership became worthless despite just paying it in full just a few months ago.

I would say that either clearer notice, clearer rules, or more tact would have prevented or entirely resolved the situation. If, for example, it was in the notice then i may have asked the partners wife to check the moorage before going to get the keys. Or, if they simply gave me keys and told me that the slip was in arrears and if it wasnt paid theyd boot the boat out of the slip...

But its mostly water under the bridge now because the arrears have been paid. At this point its semantics, mostly about the rules.
What im going to do at this point is continue looking at other moorage options and buying the rest of the boat out while simultaneously bringing up how infuriating this process was in private with friendly board members and long term members.

If things get better then ill stick around. If i am made to feel like my partners kid and keep having my volunteer hour ideas shot down, i'll leave. Plus, ill get my company to sponsor their summer regatta with a big cheque. After that, i think my $1700 is going to get me a bit more than lip service and an offer to accept my resignation when i call the president to express protest.
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Old 13-02-2013, 15:46   #50
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

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Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
...
If things get better then ill stick around. If i am made to feel like my partners kid and keep having my volunteer hour ideas shot down, i'll leave. Plus, ill get my company to sponsor their summer regatta with a big cheque. After that, i think my $1700 is going to get me a bit more than lip service and an offer to accept my resignation when i call the president to express protest.
I liked most of your post until I got to the end. This sounds like you're still looking for some sort of "power play" where you get what you want or else.
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:16   #51
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

No, its not a power play at all. From the moment i joined i wanted to get more involved and be very active within the club even as an associate. I saw it as a great way to meet people into boating. This entire experience has soured me on that somewhat, but i have met a lot of cool people, albeit most of them arent on the board.

Getting nothing but lip service for $1700 is infuriating to most anyone, but if im getting lip service and an offer to accept my resignation from the club, then its probably safe to assume that the "powers that be" dont see much value in having me around, hence the constant shooting down of my offers to help. If i can bring a good corporate sponsorship, then maybe those who see little value in my jovial conversation might see some value in my ability to bring $ to the table for the annual regatta.

Ive been a member of a variety of clubs, even chairman and president of several. I know how it goes on the other side. While i cant understand paying lip service to a member who paid a pretty penny for few rights, it would be hard to pay lip service to someone who brings a five figure sponsorship to the table. Earning your wings or whatever.

To me boating is fun and games (safe boating aside). While im not interested in playing political games at the club because i do that enough on political boards in the off season, im also like most people not impressed at having what little rights i paid for revoked in the blink of an eye either.
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:42   #52
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

What is a pretty penny to you, $1700, could be nothing to them. Relax, let it go, and move on having a good sailing season. Complaining, even to members 1-1, will serve little purpose other than soothing your ego.
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:59   #53
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Re: Yacht club rant

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Aieeee. The nuclear option. Are you a lawyer by chance?

SNIP!
No, not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.

But I am an officer in a yacht club and I do have some thoughts on the need to play by the rules. Offends my sense of fairness you might say.

It does sound a lot like this club is not responsive to individuals and needs to be shucked. The problem in my mind is how to minimize money loss and spending too much emotional energy on a resolution.

Regards
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:22   #54
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

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But I am an officer in a yacht club and I do have some thoughts on the need to play by the rules. Offends my sense of fairness you might say.

It does sound a lot like this club is not responsive to individuals and needs to be shucked. The problem in my mind is how to minimize money loss and spending too much emotional energy on a resolution.
That is my feeling exactly. If it was in the rules, it was in the rules, and im completely in the wrong and up the creek with no paddle. But it isnt in the rules (and before paying beleive me i read them thoroughly) so its a bit draconian and unilateral to enforce non-rules so harshly.

I can understand that they want payment, especially on late and chronically late accounts receivable. But rules are rules and its unfair to bend the rules at will to serve the needs of whoever is on the board and whatever their current objectives are (ie. Use key replacement as opportunity to enforce collection). While they are in the grey area of their own rules in denying keys to members in good standing but with overdue moorage, they are way out in left field denying keys to members in good standing because through a boat they are affiliated to another member who is not without either a rule clearly in the bylaws or at the very least very clear notice to all whom may be effected.

I sit on multiple boards outside of boating and on the good ones everyone refers to the bylaws whenever a matter of procedure comes up, doing it by the book means little to no conflict amongst the board and the members, everyone is on solid ground and things tick along. On the bad ones the president and some inner circle flouts the rules, either in the name of expediency or blatantly, board members and members get all pissy and drama and politics ensue and tend to dwarf the larger objective.

I agree with the one poster, bringing it up one on one wont really solve much of anything but it does communicate around informally that maybe the people running the board arent the best choices. Talking to a few well connected long time members who are friendly might let them know just how many people are annoyed with this way of doing things and they can pull their strings to keep things on the level, because they may know of other annoyed people.

I will say, i have talked to several other members already before this issue even came up and there are serious grumblings about this new board almost ever since they took over.

On the note of not being responsive to individual issues as you mentioned this is so true. Instead of a blank stare, a flat refusal to give me keys, offering to accept my resignation from the club, someone could have just called the partners wife and ask her if and when she can pay for her husband who is known to be out of country, and if she says she will pay promply, settling the matter quickly and everyone wins. Or some other solution; i can think of virtually hundreds of better ways to handle this relatively simple issue.

When i have sat in the hot seat on the board running clubs, my goal in every conflict was to come to the best resolution for all so nobody walked away feeling angry. Thats not because im mr. Pushover - its because its for the best benefit of the organization (and my leadership) to not have bad blood, fueds, drama and rumours flying around because it takes away from the wider objective of the club to have the board putting out fires and getting wrapped into games amongst factions of members.

If i was going to summarize how i feel about this problem, its that i absolutely do not like how this guy does business.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:33   #55
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

Seems like people just are getting your point. Your associate membership is in no way tied to your partner or the boat. So, why should they penalize you for your partners oversight? Because they can. Properly? No. It's there club - which the president made clear - and if you don't like it -well, sorry to say that's the club you joined. So, unfair or not, what choice do you have? Either get your partner to pay his moorage or pay it for him, and get on with your life. Know this - we do sympathize.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:39   #56
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

Haha. Thanks. Ranting helps to vent off some steam. Like i said its probably already paid now, so its water under the bridge and were kind of talking in circles.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:49   #57
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

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Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
<snip>...I sit on multiple boards...I agree with the one poster...i have talked to several other members...note of not being responsive...When i have sat in the hot seat...<snip>

If i was going to summarize how i feel about this problem, its that i absolutely do not like how this guy does business.
In general, do you copy and paste from your previous postings or do you re-type all of the same information each time?

I can't believe that your entire issue couldn't be resolved with one question:
You, "What do I need to do to get my privileges reinstated?"
Them, "The slip fees need to be current"
You, "Here is a check for $450"
Them, "Here is your new key"

Notice that in my scenario you take ownership of the problem in the first statement. Problem solving 101. Not only is it an easy way to diffuse difficult situations, it is much easier than digging through by laws and going to meetings and conspiring against the board members.
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Old 13-02-2013, 18:27   #58
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

Remember, as an associate, very few rules apply to you....they are for full members,
And if someone as an associate came to me with the story you've just shared with us , I'd be the first in line to drop a black ball on your full membership.. and the point where you are going to get your boss to write a BI G check..... Don't need no drama queens:.......
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Old 13-02-2013, 18:47   #59
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Re: Yacht club rant

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Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
Ok, im not going to name the names etc so this doesnt show up in search results... But want some external opinions.

My yacht club is changing the keys right now. I paid my associate membership just 3 months ago, $1700 in initiation and annual dues. As an associate member, i get no moorage rights, i cant run for the board, vote, or do much of anything other than use th facilities. Because i dont live in the municipality of my yacht club, i cant qualify to be a full member.

I co own a boat with a fellow who is a long time 12 year member. We decided to keep the boat there when i bought in. The board wanted my $2million proof of liability and my associate membership so i could have keys and make use of the facilities, to which i happily obliged as i saw it to be a great way to meet other boaters.

They have a 8 volunteer hour requirement, to which ive suggested a lot of things, ranging from embroidering yacht club swag, improving the on dock net service, even a way to make the club tens of thousands of dollars and the board keeps blowing me off - most specifically the president. This is getting rediculous. The embroidery, which wasnt a priority before i joined, they now have a business that will do it at full dollar, he is happy to continue to pay through the nose for net service that nobody wants because its $50 a month, something i could set up for $10 per device for life with faster and better service. I offered to help with the website but they have some web guy who does that for top dollar too.

Well the latest drama is the new keys. Despite paying my $1700 in full and being up and current, i now cant get my keys or my membership card because... Get this... The member im partnered on the boat is behind on his moorage. That might make sense, if it was my slip. But im not allowed to have a slip as an associate member. The guy im partnered on the boat with could buy me out and boot me out of his slip at any time with no involvement from the club - im not allowed to have a slip. I call the president and give him an earful; he says well if i want to forefeit my membership let him know.
Thanks for reaffirming the reason I never join these ridiculous outfits. I belonged to a sailing club in Hawaii for $50 a year. even that became too political with one old time horn blower tooting his horn all the time.

Quote:
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If you're lucky, they'll let you blow the horn.
...or something else...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I would resign from the club. I don't think you can win here because you have no power to make them do what you would like them to do.
...exactly! Let them find other sheeple to to play the game.
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Old 13-02-2013, 19:09   #60
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Re: Yacht Club Rant

The hesitation with just leaving the club is that $1600 of my money evaporates into thin air. If i was looking at getting most of my money back that would go a long way towards moorage somewhere else... But initiation is non refundable and given my experience so far i really doubt any negotiation would get it back.

Plus i have met some good people there and made some friends... I have learned the waters... Its only a couple people on the board peeing me off
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