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Old 14-11-2013, 09:09   #16
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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post

On that point, it is an internal investigation - WSF's own look at how they went wrong and how they can improve. I think a USCG investigation would probably include a little more information about the yacht, and would look at the watch kept and actions taken/not taken.
You are probably right about the uscg investigation, but the ferry turned right into the pleasure craft at 18kts at the last second. Im not sure how the pleasure craft captain could be at fault, even if he was keeping a good watch.
That captain should be fired along with the 2nd mate in training. There are plenty of good captains out there that could handle that job as there have been plenty before her with flawless records. No doubt it is a demanding job - she is just the wrong person for the job.
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:20   #17
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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I find it interesting that in earlier reports the rudder command was stated as turn LEFT not turn to PORT yet the report only mentions a "non-specific rudder command of port"?

I find it confusing what a non-specific turn to port is; “come to port and sound the whistle if you deem it necessary.” command? I suppose non-specific means how much rudder to port...?

Am I alone on the earlier reports that the bridge command was "Turn left and sound the whistle of you deem it necessary."......

Are they attempting to diminish something by saying "non-specific port command" vs. "The Captain gave a non-specific order to turn left".......?

How does a paid professional mistake port for starboard? This stuff is so engrained in the brain that it would seem unrealistic for a mistake like this to happen.......?? I can see where "left" might cause that sort of momentary lapse to someone expecting to hear PORT or STARBOARD, but port is port on a vessel and starboard is starboard.......... This is Play-Doh & Lego level elementary learning......
It happens more often than you think. It's one of those things that you do over and over and over and over again where every once in awhile, you screw it up. Human nature, basically. This time, unfortunately, another boat was there and the error couldn't be "covered".

Non-specific rudder order means that the Capt. simply instructed the helmsman (who just happened to be the 2/M) to come to port to give the sailboat some more room. In retrospect, she would've been better served by giving a specific rudder angle (left 20).

Rudder commands in the U.S are traditionally given as 'Left' or 'Right'. 'Port' and 'Starboard' is reserved for reference to the engines on a twin-screw vessel. (eg, 'Right ten, port-engine dead slow ahead'). Any rudder command given should ALWAYS be followed-up with a glance at the rudder angle indicator to make sure it's being implemented properly. That's piloting 101.
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:24   #18
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It's a board of trade report isbt it. How can that be a company report
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:35   #19
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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It's a board of trade report isbt it. How can that be a company report
That is indeed WSF's internal report. Have not seen the USCG report yet, if it's even ready.
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:10   #20
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

I am confused by the official report - it continually refers to the M/Y Tasya and to a sailboat that was not struck by the Hyak.

This morning the owner of the sailboat that was struck and sunk filed a claim for repayment.

Was the official report in error when they referred to a MotorYacht (M/Y) and if so isn't that pretty sloppy?
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:19   #21
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I am confused by the official report - it continually refers to the M/Y Tasya and to a sailboat that was not struck by the Hyak.

This morning the owner of the sailboat that was struck and sunk filed a claim for repayment.

Was the official report in error when they referred to a MotorYacht (M/Y) and if so isn't that pretty sloppy?
The Tasya was a sailboat, but it was under power at the time. Hence, it was referred to as a m/v
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:45   #22
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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The Tasya was a sailboat, but it was under power at the time. Hence, it was referred to as a m/v
Actually it's a Motor/Sailor more trawler then sailboat. It's an odd looking duck out of the water. I saw a pic of it on the hard. Can't find it now.

It will be interesting to see/read the final USCG report, as it will inform of all of the right away issues as well.

Lloyd
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:50   #23
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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It's a board of trade report isbt it. How can that be a company report
WSDOT stands for Washington State Dept Of Transportation - the agency responsible for State Ferries.
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:59   #24
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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You are probably right about the uscg investigation, but the ferry turned right into the pleasure craft at 18kts at the last second. Im not sure how the pleasure craft captain could be at fault, even if he was keeping a good watch.
That captain should be fired along with the 2nd mate in training. There are plenty of good captains out there that could handle that job as there have been plenty before her with flawless records. No doubt it is a demanding job - she is just the wrong person for the job.
Even if there was nothing he could do, if he wasn't maintaining a continuous watch in accordance with the law, then he could be considered partially at fault.
Agreed the capt showed a low level of competence and should be let go. The 2/M was inexperienced and not well supervised - I don't think she should be fired.
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Old 14-11-2013, 11:08   #25
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Reading that report is a learning expirence for everyone. They certainly referenced COLREGS more than once.
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Old 14-11-2013, 11:37   #26
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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Reading that report is a learning expirence for everyone. They certainly referenced COLREGS more than once.
What I found refreshing is the report only dealt with own-ships responsibility. Not even attempting to find fault with the other.

This is how future issues can be avoided.

The USCG report will certainly look at responsibilities of both boats involved.

Lloyd
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Old 15-11-2013, 05:18   #27
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

I knew I had read the "come left" before:

Wash. ferry at fault for collision with sailboat - SFGate

Ferry crew's human error resulted in San Juan sailboat collision Ľ Kitsap Sun

"Reportedly" a USCG Statement:
SailNet Community - View Single Post - sailboat and ferry collide!


So my question is.... If left and right are suitable terms for rudder commands why did the WA State report change the wording to "port"...????
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Old 15-11-2013, 05:54   #28
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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Agreed the capt showed a low level of competence and should be let go. The 2/M was inexperienced and not well supervised - I don't think she should be fired.

So you want someone driving your ship who can't tell left from right??
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Old 15-11-2013, 07:30   #29
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

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So you want someone driving your ship who can't tell left from right??
I take it you've never been on the bridge of a large ship.
When I give a helm order, it is specific and direct; I check the rudder indicator and that the bow of the ship moves the correct way. I know immediately if the helmsman turns the wrong way and I can correct it immediately. I also know from experience that helmsmen do sometimes turn the wrong way - sometimes its fatigue, or the fog of war, brain-fart, whatever - it happens; people are fallible. This happens when a specific helm order is given, so it's not hard to imagine when given a non-specific direction, what other sources of confusion might be added to the list above - especially for an inexperienced person in the process of learning new skills.
The captain had the conn, not the helmsman. The captain was responsible to take safe avoiding action, not the helmsman. I don't for a minute believe the helmsman doesn't know the difference between left and right, and I suspect you don't really believe that either. She should have been closely supervised while apprenticing, not left to herself to make an anti-collision determination that's way above her pay-grade and experience level. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 15-11-2013, 09:05   #30
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Re: WSF Hyak collision update.

During my service aboard a destroyer escort we would often hang out in the wheel house, which was, incidentally below decks and not on the bridge. The command from the bridge would be something like Port 15 and the helmsman would repeat it back to the bridge as "Port 15 aye sir". when the maneuver was complete the helmsman would say "15 degrees of port wheel on sir" This was clearly a method of ensuring that the helmsman heard and understood the command and carried it out accordingly.
If this method was adopted on commercial vessels incidents like the one mentioned above might possibly be avoided.
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