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Old 08-01-2019, 21:31   #1
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Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

With so many electric cars now, and the world heading toward safe smaller nuclear options, fossil fuels are looking done for, for the most part.

Im wondering how hard for Sail boats retrofitting electric motors will be. I dont think very hard.

The other thing is with Tesla cells replacing fuel tanks and solar, hydro, wind generating electricity and overflow going to the Tesla plant in the boat, we w could see 100% renewable energy on Yachts. Outside the petroleum used to make plastic components and transport everything.

Yay, maybe that massive Ozone hole over NZ you lot have caused will close up, but late for me Ive already had 4 melanomas out. But it is important to not lose our atmosphere or we will end up like Mars. I watch a lot of Planetary Science and Quantum physics videos if you cant tell ;-p

I saw Neil De Grasse Tyson in Auckland NZ, was a little pricey and he didnt cover anything I didnt already know, but none the less it was fun.
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Old 08-01-2019, 21:37   #2
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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With so many electric cars now, and the world heading toward safe smaller nuclear options
Please link to all those new project commitments announced over the holidays, must have missed them

And how is all that propulsion energy getting out to the cruising boats every few hours?

Links to Tesla's announced marine product lines?

As the lady said in When Harry Met Sally,

"I'll have what she's having!" (thanks Nora)

I'm sorry but this is nice and cheerful and all, but just sheer fantasy spun from whole cloth,

or perhaps I just slipped sideways into an entirely different Possible World timeline as Quantum physics proposes?

(checks the news) Guess not. Oh well 8-(
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Old 08-01-2019, 23:30   #3
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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Originally Posted by LuvSun View Post
With so many electric cars now, and the world heading toward safe smaller nuclear options, fossil fuels are looking done for, for the most part.

Im wondering how hard for Sail boats retrofitting electric motors will be. I dont think very hard.

The other thing is with Tesla cells replacing fuel tanks and solar, hydro, wind generating electricity and overflow going to the Tesla plant in the boat, we w could see 100% renewable energy on Yachts. Outside the petroleum used to make plastic components and transport everything.

Yay, maybe that massive Ozone hole over NZ you lot have caused will close up, but late for me Ive already had 4 melanomas out. But it is important to not lose our atmosphere or we will end up like Mars. I watch a lot of Planetary Science and Quantum physics videos if you cant tell ;-p

I saw Neil De Grasse Tyson in Auckland NZ, was a little pricey and he didnt cover anything I didnt already know, but none the less it was fun.
so much wrong so little time .
First yes lots of electric cars , not to difficult to convert to electric propulsion .
Define small nuclear reactors, so far smallest size while fits in a conex box for shipping when setup fueled and operational. Not so much.
Tesla cells are huge by comparison to a 20 gallon tank of diesel ( which will give you many hours under power on the average 30-40 ft sailboat. Also rechargeable via about 20 minutes at the fuel dock.
A good portion of the electrical needs are routinely being met via solar to recharge the batteries.
The hole in the ozone well recent research has shown the " hole" which is actually just a thinning of the layer is at least 75% natural.
The stripping of the atmosphere is actually the sun doing it .
Lastly you didn't miss much .
Calling Tyson a scientist is a bit of a stretch . He's almost as bad as bill nye the engineer guy.
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Old 09-01-2019, 00:15   #4
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

Its a curious question guys, dont be so hum bug ;-p


I was refering to Tesla battery cells replacing a fuel tank not a tote tank.


My point is with much of the world now aiming at 2050 for 100% renewables, it has to happen eventually. Fiberglass isnt biodegradeable and hulls are very renewable, so I can see when these technologies do converge installing one in a yacht wont be a big hassle. Advancing technologies in propeller, solar, wind generation will eventually be enough to fill these large Tesla cells. It was simply meant as a discussion on potential future of engines for yachts. I like to think far ahead.



As for nuclear plants, modern plants, unlike the old one that got hit in japan, have so many fail safe features now, and being smaller the risk management is really low now, its said by physicists Nuclear and Tesla products or similar are the only way forward for the future.

I can link some science docos if you are truely interested in the concepts for future energy production and use.

Heck Lime scooters are everywhere, electric trains are everywhere, all countries need are carbon neutral power sources.
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Old 09-01-2019, 00:34   #5
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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Its a curious question guys, dont be so hum bug ;-p


I was refering to Tesla battery cells replacing a fuel tank not a tote tank.


My point is with much of the world now aiming at 2050 for 100% renewables, it has to happen eventually. Fiberglass isnt biodegradeable and hulls are very renewable, so I can see when these technologies do converge installing one in a yacht wont be a big hassle. Advancing technologies in propeller, solar, wind generation will eventually be enough to fill these large Tesla cells. It was simply meant as a discussion on potential future of engines for yachts. I like to think far ahead.



As for nuclear plants, modern plants, unlike the old one that got hit in japan, have so many fail safe features now, and being smaller the risk management is really low now, its said by physicists Nuclear and Tesla products or similar are the only way forward for the future.

I can link some science docos if you are truely interested in the concepts for future energy production and use.

Heck Lime scooters are everywhere, electric trains are everywhere, all countries need are carbon neutral power sources.
if you take into account the construction and eventual recycling there is really no carbon neutral electrical power source .

Now once they actually get molten salt reactors functioning properly , or pebble reactors then they will have something that will come close to carbon neutral by their end of life.
Aside from the fact we don't need to strive for carbon neutrality . There are a lot of actual pollutants that we put in the air that we shouldn't .
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Old 09-01-2019, 00:53   #6
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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if you take into account the construction and eventual recycling there is really no carbon neutral electrical power source .

Now once they actually get molten salt reactors functioning properly , or pebble reactors then they will have something that will come close to carbon neutral by their end of life.
Aside from the fact we don't need to strive for carbon neutrality . There are a lot of actual pollutants that we put in the air that we shouldn't .
Yes true, I should have said lowered Carbon emissions. This along with being taught at school how to sail (its part of the curriculum in NZ) is one of the reasons of had mostly yachts over big launches. It is an idealism but I am an ecologist and environmentalist at heart so I cant help but dream. ;0p

Is there any reason Tesla couldnt put there cells in a boat like they do a car? Have free super charge stations at marinas like they do for cars etc.

Clearly a long way off mainstream.

Arent we down to the last 1/7th of accessible fossil fuels now? Something like that.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:03   #7
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

Do a quick search of the forum, it's been beaten to death...
- If all you want is enough to get in and out of a slip, it's very much viable...of course if that's all you need, you likely won't use more than 4-5gal of fuel per year, so it's a huge cost to convert that you will never recover and you aren't going to save the world eliminating 4-5 gal of diesel use per year.
- If you want to be able to motor at typical cruising speeds for better than 20-40miles per day on a regular basis, it's just not viable (at least not without major compromises).

PS: Cars do much better because they have wildly varying power needs (particularly for city driving). They go from needing zero power (at a stop light) to needing max HP (accelerating) multiple times over just a few minutes. Plus for most, they sit in a garage where they can be plugged in each night before using less than an hour of propulsion per day. Displacement cruising boats need steady constant power for hours on end if you actually want to motor and if you are at anchor, there is no viable recharging between days.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:23   #8
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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Arent we down to the last 1/7th of accessible fossil fuels now? Something like that.
actually no we are not with the improvements in extraction technology we at current use rates only have about 400 years left, and technology is improving by the day .

That was before bp. Just announced they have discovered approx 4 billion more barrels in one of the oil fields in the gulf of Mexico.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:56   #9
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

I know it has been done to death and I don't plan on giving up my diesel anytime soon but these little babies (graphine batteries) may just be the next big step towards this. Much faster charging and energy dense than Lithium. I can wait to see what develops in the net 10 years. My son works for a robotic car company and I know they are looking at this tech.
If you haven't heard of this tech it would be worth a look see.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/grap...upercapacitors
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:16   #10
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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so much wrong so little time .
First yes lots of electric cars , not to difficult to convert to electric propulsion .
Define small nuclear reactors, so far smallest size while fits in a conex box for shipping when setup fueled and operational. Not so much.
Tesla cells are huge by comparison to a 20 gallon tank of diesel ( which will give you many hours under power on the average 30-40 ft sailboat. Also rechargeable via about 20 minutes at the fuel dock.
A good portion of the electrical needs are routinely being met via solar to recharge the batteries.
The hole in the ozone well recent research has shown the " hole" which is actually just a thinning of the layer is at least 75% natural.
The stripping of the atmosphere is actually the sun doing it .
Lastly you didn't miss much .
Calling Tyson a scientist is a bit of a stretch . He's almost as bad as bill nye the engineer guy.


Canít offer much on the electric vs petroleum question but have a strong opinion on Neil DT. He is a distinguished scientist but unsure of his moral fortitude. I have never liked his stance on demoting Pluto to a minor planet but his 1993 paper on using the twilight sky for flat fielding large ccd cameras is an important contribution. He also has done much to promote astronomy in general. My hope is the current allegations he is facing donít smeer the astronomy community too much. If the allegations are true, he should burn!
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:40   #11
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

Check out Nigel Calderís solution at integrelmarine.com. He has really given all of this a lot of energy literally; see also the article in the Feb 2019 SAIL magazine. High capacity batteries fueled by a revolutionary Calderator! Very cool.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:01   #12
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

Sorry but I think the discussion is stupid!!

E-Cars nowadays need about 400 KiloWatts for around 400 km.
For yachts (10-15m) we do need engines from 20 to 70 Kw.

Usually you can discharge 50% at max. without loosing the neccessary voltage.
With a 14m vessel and 50 Kw you are able to go on for 4 hrs...

And? What do you think? How much solar panel are required to recharge?
Shaft alternator? Yes but only >= 5 knots and 350 rpm to get say 200 Amps out of a perfect system = 4 hrs for 1Kw and 400 hrs sailing to get 400 Kw.


And an E filling station every 2 hrs of reach?


Sorry but I had loughed enough on those expectations and as time goes by I'm getting bored.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:04   #13
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

"Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?"

Only among the metro-sexual.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:14   #14
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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I know it has been done to death and I don't plan on giving up my diesel anytime soon
Thats the spirit of the thread I meant it to be mate. I was just thinking a long long time from now, clearly cars and boats are different, Im just imagining what the offerings will be like given what technologies we use in other industries now.

400 years wow, yeah I figured we would find ways to get to the slick that we thought was impossible only 10 years ago, where there is a will there is a way. But this Ozone hole above New Zealand really is nasty. I go to Greece and I can pretty much go shirtless and not worry too much. In NZ I have to wear SPF 50 and multiple applications or I peel and blister, I got 2nd or ot might have been 3rd degree burns (It blistered and went all yellow and pusy) once from it and I had applied SPF 50. thats when I learnt dont rely on what the label says.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:23   #15
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Re: Will electric outboards start replacing diesel inboards?

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That really is awesome, so its simply a case of resolving holding more charge for longer periods.

I like this bit

" they donít degrade like lithium-ion batteries, which rely on rare-earth metals and can end up in landfill after two years"

Ive always been an environmentalist at heart and vote Greens party down under and do volunteer work cleaning up beaches that people cant get to by foot, just picking up all the plastic and rubbish above the high/storm line.

My ex was a Dr in Ecology and I would follow her around remote parts of NZ and the plastic and general rubbish is in places you just wouldnt expect it to get to.

I was looking at the Tesla Model30 and I was surprised how far they go on a charge and how darn fast electric cars are. Also how Tesla provides free Super Fast charge for free at charging stations vs the one you leave on over night (which isnt that much hassle either). I am a bit of a fan of the cyclyable technology though, like bikes that are constantly recharging themselves as they move due to a small alternator/generator.
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