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Old 23-09-2014, 08:40   #76
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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See I think there will be a resurgence in sailing, the rise in petroleum costs will drive it. With a little power boat on a good weekend of diving, I would go through 50 gls of gas or more. With my sailboat it's months before I go through 50 gls of Diesel.

Of course I thought the silly SUV craze would have died long ago too, based on fuel costs, but it hasn't.
The SUV craze was a marketing ploy by the auto industry. If you recall during the Carter administration new rules for passenger cars fuel efficency were established. Basically they said that by year 2000 (+/- few years on either side of that date) all passenger vehicles must be I think 20mpg and the number must go up with time. But the loophole there was that SUVs and pick-up trucks were exempt as service/work related utility vehicles, just like 18 wheelers and garbage trucks. So Detroit came up with the idea to push these as the industry's escape from these regs. And of course the oil companies were only too happy to join in in tha push. The rest is history so to speak.
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:46   #77
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

Still, I would have thought that the average person when faced with a >$100 per fill up, would have decided to drive something that got a little better mileage, but they haven't.
I guess the point being that you can't always use logic to determine how Joe or Jane average will act.
I remember CAFE standards, and think the "flex fuel" vehicles is another ploy to get around that.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:03   #78
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Still, I would have thought that the average person when faced with a >$100 per fill up, would have decided to drive something that got a little better mileage, but they haven't.
I guess the point being that you can't always use logic to determine how Joe or Jane average will act.
I remember CAFE standards, and think the "flex fuel" vehicles is another ploy to get around that.
It's probably the same people who keep buying 3000sf houses only to give those back to the banks 2-3 years later.

In August a got a hard top to install on the boat. So I needed a pick up truck to bring the top to the boat. Rented F-150 from U-Haul. Was appalled at the gas gauge moving as I was driving. I drove altogether about 80 miles r/t, no more. Had to put just about $35 worth of gas to bring the needle to where it was when I got it. I calculated it was guzzling 8mpg. And half of my 80 miles were highway miles.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:07   #79
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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See I think there will be a resurgence in sailing, the rise in petroleum costs will drive it.
Hate to burst your bubble, but oil prices are on their way down. The resurgence in domestic oil production will make the USA energy independent by the end of the decade (according to experts in the field). You can see the decline in the table below (click to enlarge).
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:16   #80
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

I witnessed the effect of fuel prices by watching our expansive mooring field since 2005. First few years, especially on weekends, there were all those motor boats leaving for a day or two worth of trips, fishing, just planing around the outside of harbor, etc. Then in 2008 - like the switch was turned off. Most of these boaters started using their boats as stationary resorts and very few went out and then for few hours at most. Starting in 2011 they started to go out again, each year a little more boats and going more often. May be the owners got used to the fuel prices or stopped being afraid of the economy, potential job loss, etc. Happy to report that the sailboat use was not visiblly affected.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:26   #81
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Hate to burst your bubble, but oil prices are on their way down. The resurgence in domestic oil production will make the USA energy independent by the end of the decade (according to experts in the field). You can see the decline in the table below (click to enlarge).
You may be right, although it seems there is a lot more inflation than claimed also, just seems things cost way more now than just a few years ago, although that may be just part of me getting older too.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:38   #82
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Unfortunately there was never a Henry Ford in the boat industry (except may be MacGregor but that's not really an equivalent to a Model T more like an equivalent to a Columbia bicycle) to open it up to the masses and to make the new product both affordable and useful.
Not really. Frank Butler of Coronado and Catalina, MacGregor as you mentioned, O'Day, Pearson and a few others. Most of them were put out of business by that stupid, stupid "luxury" tax in the time of Bushie I. Dumber than dirt, it was.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:41   #83
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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You may be right, although it seems there is a lot more inflation than claimed also, just seems things cost way more now than just a few years ago, although that may be just part of me getting older too.
It's not you it's the gov't budget office methodology. Some years back all the components which were supposedly "too volatile to be taken into account" such as food, energy, housing, medicine, etc. were left out of the CPI which together with constantly dropping prices of electronics such as TVs, phones etc can now show 0.1% inflation. Yeah, right...
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:50   #84
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Not really. Frank Butler of Coronado and Catalina, MacGregor as you mentioned, O'Day, Pearson and a few others. Most of them were put out of business by that stupid, stupid "luxury" tax in the time of Bushie I. Dumber than dirt, it was.
They each were big sellers as far as the boat industry was concerned but in no way did they come close to being Henry Fords. Otherwise we would now view new boats as necessity and not just as expensive toys. Before H. Ford an automobile's position in the society was exactly as that of a boat today - a toy which few can afford to own new. He changed that. Unfortunately no one has done that to boating. May be it's just not doable for many valid reasons but that's another question altogether.

I'm curious to find out how many forum members ever bought a brand new boat? Especially anything larger than 30ft? And I mean w/o any sales gimmicks such as shared ownership, club ownership, charter ownership, etc. Just straight out purchase, like we buy new cars. Not to mention how many of those returned to buy new again.
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:54   #85
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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I'm curious to find out how many forum members ever bought a brand new boat? Especially anything larger than 30ft? And I mean w/o any sales gimmicks such as shared ownership, club ownership, charter ownership, etc. Just straight out purchase, like we buy new cars. Not to mention how many of those returned to buy new again.
We have and continue to do so. Only boats we've ever owned were purchased new.
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Old 23-09-2014, 10:08   #86
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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The SUV craze was a marketing ploy by the auto industry. If you recall during the Carter administration new rules for passenger cars fuel efficency were established. Basically they said that by year 2000 (+/- few years on either side of that date) all passenger vehicles must be I think 20mpg and the number must go up with time. But the loophole there was that SUVs and pick-up trucks were exempt as service/work related utility vehicles, just like 18 wheelers and garbage trucks. So Detroit came up with the idea to push these as the industry's escape from these regs. And of course the oil companies were only too happy to join in in tha push. The rest is history so to speak.
There was also the institution of crash and rollover safety standards for passenger vehicles. So Chrysler invented the minivan, which was classified as a truck, and did not have to comply with the standards.
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Old 23-09-2014, 10:27   #87
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

On the west coast in SF bay, I have noted a sharp drop in weekend anchoring at china camp and other locations in the bay and Delta. In 2007/2008 it was not uncommon to see 12-20 boats anchored overnight friday and saturday nights at china camp. This year, counting me there have been on average four boats anchored over night. Most of those are over 20 years old.

I do see a few newer boats now and then, generally 40-50 feet. But few overall. The number of boats in marina's looks about the same. But so few boats actually see people.

What is growing is the number of people that are living full time at anchorages. That number has tripled in the last 4 years.
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Old 23-09-2014, 10:37   #88
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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1. They each were big sellers as far as the boat industry was concerned but in no way did they come close to being Henry Fords. Otherwise we would now view new boats as necessity and not just as expensive toys. Before H. Ford an automobile's position in the society was exactly as that of a boat today - a toy which few can afford to own new. He changed that. Unfortunately no one has done that to boating. May be it's just not doable for many valid reasons but that's another question altogether.

2. I'm curious to find out how many forum members ever bought a brand new boat? Especially anything larger than 30ft? And I mean w/o any sales gimmicks such as shared ownership, club ownership, charter ownership, etc. Just straight out purchase, like we buy new cars. Not to mention how many of those returned to buy new again.
1. I beg to differ with your: Unfortunately no one has done that to boating. Yes, they were big sellers, but what made them that was the way they were produced. The relationship to Henry Ford was actually quite close, in that in fiberglass they were among the first to build boats on an ASSEMBLY LINE. Sound familiar to Ford? They also, as a result, were sold at a price the "average Joe" could actually afford, and were solid and reliable. While that may not be true today, it certainly was back in the 60s.

2. Personally, I've never bought a new boat. When we got the one we own now in 1998, it was 12 years old. The day we made the offer, we went to the local boat sales office to see the new ones and we simply couldn't justify to ourselves what was essentially and almost exactly twice the cost for the same boat! Sure, it was newer, but 16 years on now, my boat is 27 years old, that new one would be 16 years old, with all the same maintenance work required. My "old" boat was in tremendous shape when we got her, since the PO was meticulous, god bless him. I have 2800 engine hours, I would have 2000 had I bought the new boat. I replaced the standing rigging in 2003, would have had to do that to the "new" boat, too. Some people, OTOH, like new boats. I've bought used cars and new cars, too, but don't understand the analogy to boats at all, since I don't think it's comparable (except for the Henry Ford analogy ).
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Old 23-09-2014, 10:52   #89
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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We have and continue to do so. Only boats we've ever owned were purchased new.
I compare a boat to the cars/trucks/vans I have owned.

The last new one was bought when I was 21. My last car payment was made when I was 24. Every one of my vehicles have been used since then.

I see no reason to buy an asset which depreciates so quickly in the first few years, vehicle or boat. I am glad, however, that there are people who for whatever personal reasons, buy new, so that there is a ready supply of used ones in the market place.

It makes sense for me, and I'm sure for whatever reason, it makes sense to those who buy new to them.

Ain't the world a wonderful place where diversity in opinion can mean everyone is correct in their own way?
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Old 23-09-2014, 10:58   #90
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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On the west coast in SF bay, I have noted a sharp drop in weekend anchoring at china camp and other locations in the bay and Delta. In 2007/2008 it was not uncommon to see 12-20 boats anchored overnight friday and saturday nights at china camp. This year, counting me there have been on average four boats anchored over night. Most of those are over 20 years old.

I do see a few newer boats now and then, generally 40-50 feet. But few overall. The number of boats in marina's looks about the same. But so few boats actually see people.

What is growing is the number of people that are living full time at anchorages. That number has tripled in the last 4 years.
With the pricing of real estate in SF I can understand why. One can buy a pretty nice boat for a fraction of even a small condo.
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