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Old 24-07-2014, 16:37   #31
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

Here's an interesting addendum to this thread. I'm trying to buy an older boat 37' to 40'. I'm mostly interested in boats like the Gulfstar and Endeavour around 1980 (give or take a few years). The first Gulfstar I looked at had a great engine and very good sails. However, there was a list of other things that didn't work, which was much longer. The owner wanted $40K.

Then I made plans over a two week period to see two Endeavours and a Cape Dory, which all had plenty of cruising goodies for under $30K. All three sold before I could get to their location (each several hundred miles away).

It's not a buyer's market for well equipped and well maintained boats IMO.
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Old 24-07-2014, 16:54   #32
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Originally Posted by CaptTL View Post
Here's an interesting addendum to this thread. I'm trying to buy an older boat 37' to 40'. I'm mostly interested in boats like the Gulfstar and Endeavour around 1980 (give or take a few years). The first Gulfstar I looked at had a great engine and very good sails. However, there was a list of other things that didn't work, which was much longer. The owner wanted $40K.

Then I made plans over a two week period to see two Endeavours and a Cape Dory, which all had plenty of cruising goodies for under $30K. All three sold before I could get to their location (each several hundred miles away).

It's not a buyer's market for well equipped and well maintained boats IMO.
Good point, the right boat at the right price still sells..
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Old 24-07-2014, 16:56   #33
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
And given the quality of many boats built in last 20 years or so ... some have already started to fall apart on their own.

Hence the supply side will shrink promptly too ...

b.
Uh oh.......here we go!
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Old 24-07-2014, 16:58   #34
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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The problem is that used boat pricing doesn't match new boat pricing. Who would pay for a used boat that is more expensive than a new, or newer one?

The price of used boats is, I believe, widely misunderstood. Here is my pricing model.

In general, it should be roughly the half cost of a new boat minus the cost of bringing that used boat up to half-new condition, or plus if the boat is in better than half-new condition.

Now that is not really an easy thing to measure for all parts, but for major components it's a quantifiable figure - sails, chainplates, engines, props, lines, pullies, winches, etc.

Next, there is an adjustment for obsolescence. In world where sailboat designs barely changed in 60 years, obsolescence is not much of a factor. In today's world, though, it is a factor. There are many small poorly laid out older designs that simply do not compare with some of the most recent designs. The catamaran yacht is relatively new, and has put a major dent in the utility of the old "reef killer" large sailing yachts.

The problem is compounded by the fact that there is no efficient means to dispose of an old boat. The parts can be salvaged, the metal can be scrapped, but the remaining fiberglass hull is nothing but a biological hazard. It costs more to get rid of a junk boat than it abandon it, or even keep it, and it costs more to repair such a boat than to buy a replacement.

There is a business opportunity for scrapping old sailboats if someone can figure out an economical process.
I don't know Art, have you looked at the prices for new boats? Not too hard to spend 135,000 on a 30 footer! By your formula, your used one should be 65k... I bet a lot of 30 footer owners wish they could get that!
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Old 24-07-2014, 17:04   #35
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

easy solution to the problem is to create a trade in system with yacht manfacturers,if they sell you a new yacht they are responsible for disposing of the old one either by sale or scrapping it.

couple that with a mandatory "roadworthy" certificate for vessels over 10years old,failure to fix and they get scrapped at the owners expense
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Old 24-07-2014, 17:12   #36
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

I wish some of the owners of derelict boats in southern Florida would upgrade to some of those giveaway boats. Anything would be better than what they are squating on now.
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Old 24-07-2014, 18:29   #37
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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I wish some of the owners of derelict boats in southern Florida would upgrade to some of those giveaway boats. Anything would be better than what they are squating on now.

I guess then they could raft the two together, and have a Cat?
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Old 24-07-2014, 18:32   #38
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Who will Buy the Boats?

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couple that with a mandatory "roadworthy" certificate for vessels over 10years old,failure to fix and they get scrapped at the owners expense

Yes, that is what I want, a mandatory yearly inspection to pay for, if we work this right it will be a new revenue stream and put a lot of people to work, those rich yacht owners will just take it out of petty cash anyway, works for cars right? Wait a minute that was dropped in my state for cars years ago, I guess it worked so well it was decided all the cars were now fixed and no longer needed inspecting?

God please save me from Government regulation, as an Aviation mechanic / inspector / Commercial pilot / Test pilot / aircraft manufacturer, I've had my share, let me tell you Guvment regulation is only good for stifling an industry, it does not improve the product or safety
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Old 24-07-2014, 19:19   #39
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

This all highlights an often overlooked advantage of metal boats - they can go back into the melting pot when obsolete.

Regards,
Richard.
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Old 24-07-2014, 19:52   #40
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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This all highlights an often overlooked advantage of metal boats - they can go back into the melting pot when obsolete.

Regards,
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Can, but not as many do as should.
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:01   #41
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

I have been forced to be for some days on a Marina in Greece (Agios Nikolaus) and yes, here, like in all cruising heavens lots of boats on the hard, some that were on his days expensive boats. I look at them and imagine the amount of work and material to have them in good shape. For a single person that will amount to several years and many tens of thousands of euros (45/50ft), for a boat that after being put in good shape will not reflect in value all that work and expense.

Losing money on a boat is what will happen, at least for the ones that buy a dream to only later realize the time and money needed to make it a seaworthy boat (I know several).

I believe the situation it will change when owners start to be charged for the value to recycle their boats as waste. That will be a necessity face to the increasing number of boats abandoned a bit everywhere and the ecological problem that will represent. Then we will see a lot more boats offered for free or almost, just to escape to pay for recycle costs.
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:15   #42
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Yes, that is what I want, a mandatory yearly inspection to pay for, if we work this right it will be a new revenue stream and put a lot of people to work, those rich yacht owners will just take it out of petty cash anyway, works for cars right? Wait a minute that was dropped in my state for cars years ago, I guess it worked so well it was decided all the cars were now fixed and no longer needed inspecting?

God please save me from Government regulation, as an Aviation mechanic / inspector / Commercial pilot / Test pilot / aircraft manufacturer, I've had my share, let me tell you Guvment regulation is only good for stifling an industry, it does not improve the product or safety
could allways ship the derelicts to cuba........
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Old 25-07-2014, 17:02   #43
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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I believe the situation it will change when owners start to be charged for the value to recycle their boats as waste. That will be a necessity face to the increasing number of boats abandoned a bit everywhere and the ecological problem that will represent. Then we will see a lot more boats offered for free or almost, just to escape to pay for recycle costs.
Another possible outcome of that plan is a lot of "inexplicable" sinkings just off the continental shelves of the world.

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Old 25-07-2014, 17:05   #44
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

If I live to be 110, it is good to know my steel boat will have scrap value and not be costly to dispose.
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Old 25-07-2014, 19:26   #45
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Re: Who will Buy the Boats?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Yes, that is what I want, a mandatory yearly inspection to pay for, if we work this right it will be a new revenue stream and put a lot of people to work, those rich yacht owners will just take it out of petty cash anyway, works for cars right? Wait a minute that was dropped in my state for cars years ago, I guess it worked so well it was decided all the cars were now fixed and no longer needed inspecting?

God please save me from Government regulation, as an Aviation mechanic / inspector / Commercial pilot / Test pilot / aircraft manufacturer, I've had my share, let me tell you Guvment regulation is only good for stifling an industry, it does not improve the product or safety
An annual inspection is what we have in Hawaii for boats at state moorings or state slips. And, there aren't many private moorings or slips.
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