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Old 27-06-2014, 15:39   #46
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

Couldn't agree more, Jim.

It's been posted before, but I'll post it again. The World Dictionary definition of Captain :

1. the person in charge of and responsible for a vessel
2. an officer of the navy who holds a rank junior to a rear admiral but senior to a commander
3. an officer of the army, certain air forces, and the marine corps who holds a rank junior to a major but senior to a lieutenant
4. the officer in command of a civil aircraft, usually the senior pilot
5. the leader of a team in games
6. a person in command over a group, organization, etc; leader: a captain of industry
7. ( US ) a police officer in charge of a precinct
8. ( US ), ( Canadian ) (formerly) a head waiter
9. ( US ), ( Canadian ) Also called: bell captain a supervisor of bellboys in a hotel
10. informal ( Austral ) a person who is buying drinks for people in a bar

Note the first item. Far from being the only country that uses the term Captain for all persons in charge of a boat, the US is actually the exception in defining it as a licensed person.
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Old 27-06-2014, 16:15   #47
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Hmmm...

To me, this sums it up:

When an official, or the person on the other end of a radio contact calls me "captain", I take it as merely a polite means of address.

When someone who needs to know asks "who is the captain (meaning in charge of the vessel) here", I admit to the title if I am indeed in charge.

But if I were to refer to myself in a social situation as "Captain Jim", I would risk being a pretentious *******. So I don't do that! This does not preclude being a P.A. in some other way...

Cheers,

Jim (no rank claimed)
Agreed! Great way of putting it.

And if anyone on a pleasure yacht asked me to call them captain anything I would probably start in with endless harassment and ridicule until they either left or started a fight. Not right but just in my nature.
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Old 27-06-2014, 16:17   #48
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

When is a captain not a captain? When he calls himself one.

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Old 27-06-2014, 16:26   #49
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

There really seems to be no definition of a captain except for a military rank. Someone referring themselves as the captain of some dinky boat that they own and use for pleasure with no license is amusing though and comes across as the ego being larger than the boat itself.
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Old 27-06-2014, 16:34   #50
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

Just for clarity. Are these insulting comments intended for those with user names like mine?
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Old 27-06-2014, 16:56   #51
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

I came to this thread very late but I have to say I found it all very confusing when moving here to the USA from the UK and seeing that almost every junior counter hand come checkout monkey in local West Marine stores are labelled 'captain this' or' captain that'. As a Brit I never felt like a captain, which seems much too pretentious and gold braidy to me but could relate to being called 'skipper' With sincere apologies to all that are Captains on here most of whom have opinions I value highly.
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Old 27-06-2014, 16:57   #52
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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There really seems to be no definition of a captain except for a military rank.
Apart from this one, yes : "1. the person in charge of and responsible for a vessel"
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Old 27-06-2014, 17:09   #53
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

So, what do I call my cereal, now? First Mate Crunch? Master Crunch? Seaman crunch?

This sailing thing is harder than I thought.
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Old 27-06-2014, 17:14   #54
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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Just for clarity. Are these insulting comments intended for those with user names like mine?
If the shoe fits........
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Old 27-06-2014, 17:29   #55
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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Just for clarity. Are these insulting comments intended for those with user names like mine?

Yes, Sir!
I suppose Sir!

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Old 27-06-2014, 17:43   #56
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

Just appreciate the fact that I don't post my mug.

Enjoy the romp
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Old 27-06-2014, 18:05   #57
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
A person with a Captains License is held to a much higher standard and if they do not follow the rules, they can loose that Captains License real fast.
In aviation your licensing is more serious - There are documented cases where the "commercially rated" pilot in the back seat was held responsible for the actions of the privately rated pilot in the front seat even though the commercial pilot was a passenger and the airplane was owned by the private pilot in the front seat!

That can suck!

Imagine an unlimited captain gets on your boat and the authorities deem he is in command of your vessel because he outranks you - I can imagine many egos around here calling foul!

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I hear "skipper" and there's only one thing I can think of...

You could do a lot worse than being that guy -

So - a diversion - Dan's Gilligan's Island Business Management Course - Staff in a large organization (especially an engineering one) breaks down exactly like Gilligan's Island

Skippers - Doer's. The people in every organization that get stuff done. This guy made grass houses, pedal powered washing machines, pedal powered cars and solved innumerable problems related to 8 people living on a remote Island

Gilligan's - Beginners, newbies - They try hard, they do what you tell them but you gotta watch them close. Fun to have around if you can tolerate their screw ups.

Professors - Cheerleaders. Useless inputs and knowledge. Always working on the wrong problem. They can keep a transistor radio going for 5 years but can't figure out how to patch a hole in a boat.

Gingers - That type of lady engineer that gets ahead on looks. Great to look at, nice to have around at Christmas parties but really of no practical value

Marianne's - Good female engineer - Practical, earthy. Bakes pies, sews clothes - gets stuff done. Adds value to the organizations - usually under-appreciated because of Gingers

Mister and Mrs. Howell - Leaders, VPs and above - Provide zero value and consumer 90% of the islands resources...

I'll be a Skipper any day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
So, what do I call my cereal, now? First Mate Crunch? Master Crunch? Seaman crunch?

This sailing thing is harder than I thought.
Well Many around here could earn the Moniker Cap'n Krunch!

And others are qualified to be a different kind of Captain
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Old 27-06-2014, 18:07   #58
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
This "fact" is often heard, but I suspect is an exaggeration of reality.

The COLREGS do not change depending on if you have a license or not.

Negligence might be a grey area and seen differently depending if licensed or not. Maybe.
I wish this was the case Dennis but in Marine College we were cited different cases where the licensed captain was punished for not assuming that the yachtsmen was ignorant of the obvious.

One famous case in Vancouver's False Creek involved a tug and a loaded gravel barge entering the channel where a new Chinese yachtsmen and his son were motorsailing out.

Yacht decided to pass between tug and tow, resulting in loss of life!

Even though tug had shortened way up .... because of a strong following wind he left a little space for jogging to line up with old railway bridge so the tow line was slack as he slowly crept in.

Judge found that tug captain should have shortened up completely so that connection between tug and tow was obvious to an amateur.

Captain lost his license!
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Old 27-06-2014, 18:10   #59
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
Just appreciate the fact that I don't post my mug.

Enjoy the romp
Funnily enough, I dont have that much of an issue with the term. If Im on a vessel and the P.I.C. is a competent and time served mariner, and running a tight ship, Ive seen most people defer to him or her as skipper or captain. The 6 pack' ers in Florida used the title in advertising their business but not in private life. Somehow its a title that comes naturally when on board.

I would refer to Jim Cate as the captain of his vessel, but would not refer to him in personal conversation as captain. Its not a title many of us attribute to ourselves outside of the water part of life, although some I have met, the term Captain comes naturally.......

My business card does not even say Doctor. Its just my name and contacts. I figure if they asked for my card, they know who and what I am.

Using a title for everyday use is a little wearing. In a hospital setting everyone is either Dr or nurse. Its a title to differentiate roles.

I do like the sound of Cap'n Jim though....... it has a ring
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Old 27-06-2014, 21:19   #60
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Re: When is a Captain not a Captain?

Skipper is OK but is informal and rather implies that you are the driver. The CG and others will always refer to the person in command of the vessel as captain. You may think that pretentious, especially if your wife (the admiral) is nearby. The title carries a certain implied aura of responsibility. You are responsible for the vessel & people aboard. Your decisions impact life & limb including those not on your boat. If you are not willing to accept this, perhaps you should not be in command.

I know it became much different for us when we stepped up to our current vessel. It does not move when you step aboard. It does not bounce off pilings. You can't fend off by pushing on the dock. In hurricane Ivan (under PO) our boat wiped out 400 feet of docks and piles in Lauderdale with only a scuffs to the outsides. An accidental contact always leaves a mark. If you hit anything, you break it. If someone is overboard, its a big deal to go get them. Coming about takes minutes - not seconds. Over-canvased is a dangerous situation. Setting and retrieving anchors is an operation. Rules of the road are to survive by.

More Captains, some better than others
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