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Old 02-09-2016, 17:23   #61
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
This maybe more of what you were thinking?:



The man was quite upset, as I would be, as he watched his yacht slip under.. This video supports the "never leave till stepping up" thought process, to which I totally agree!
Carry some stuff to plug the hole in your hull. It can be done, maybe not in this case, don't know the details. Even a patch of canvas or sailcloth. Wood plugs, ect.
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Old 02-09-2016, 17:41   #62
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
BOTH!!!
The woodie..... lost a plank (or 5) in the bow, forward momentum ram jetted water into the hull... she slipped below the water about 30 seconds after the problem first presented itself; a submarine could not have submerged faster. Luck would have it we were only in about 12' of water (which off of Cape San Blas was a LONG way offshore). The painter on the inflatable was about 60'. The "mother ship" was a very effective anchor holding the dinghy in place... just had to swim a few strokes.

The SG?.... read the link! To summarize, the ship was to be scuttled as an artificial reef. Work continued while the ballast was being added. Someone missed on their calculations and she rolled without warning.... well to be fair, the tug alongside figured out something was dreadfully wrong and started a series of 5 shorts on the airhorn, time after time. Many of us below decks didn't know what was wrong, but we KNEW what 5 shorts meant.... it saved a lot of lives! Quite a few burning rigs, welder-generators, and tools went down with the ship.

In interesting side note, and a solid endorsement of Pelican Products.... My wallet, cell phone, and camera (before they were in the phone) were in a Pelican Box 4 decks below the well deck... about 3 minutes after swimming to the TowBoat/US boat, my stuff popped to the surface.... perfectly intact and dry. ( I have no interest or stock in Pelican.... Their boxes rock! Their cell phone cases however suck)
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Old 02-09-2016, 17:46   #63
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

unbelievable about the plank. Im tryn to envision how that could happen
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Old 02-09-2016, 17:50   #64
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
This maybe more of what you were thinking?:



The man was quite upset, as I would be, as he watched his yacht slip under.. This video supports the "never leave till stepping up" thought process, to which I totally agree!
Really sad to see a nice boat sink, but really a happy ending seeing the owners safe and sound!
It makes you wonder, with the jib ripped like that they must have gotten a bit of a thrashing. Still, short of striking something, how could a boat in good shape suddenly start taking on water? Many years ago we had a boat, small one, Cal 24, disappear locally on a rough day to be found some months later on the bottom by a fishing boat's net. One conjecture at the time was that something heavy fell against a thru-hull and before the folks knew it the boat was flooded and they had no real way to find the leak, especially in rough weather. With the boat flooded the VHF was probably useless and they apparently did not have an EPIRB. Anyway, moral of the story, make sure all heavy items are immovable. Flying batteries or anchors could ruin your day.
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Old 02-09-2016, 18:51   #65
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

Quote: "Captain Smith went down with his ship, Titanic, while standing at attention behind the helm. Way to go."

Doing so is called "Birkenhead Drill", after the steam frigate HMS Birkenhead which went down off South Africa in 1852, I think it was. Elements of many British Army units were aboard en route to South Africa. When the ship struck an uncharted rock, Colonel Alexander Seton took command of all units, and ordered them to assist in the evacuation of women and children from the ship. When that was accomplished, the men were stood to attention on deck. They remained at attention till the sea took them.

It is good to know that Seton Lake and Seton Portage, near my home, were named for the colonel when British Columbia became a province of Canada six years after the Birkenhead disaster.

Seton Portage was the principal way from the coast to the goldfields in the interior during the goldrush of 1858. It is now a rather obscure village of indigenous people quite a long way off the beaten track.

TrentePieds
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Old 02-09-2016, 19:04   #66
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "Captain Smith went down with his ship, Titanic, while standing at attention behind the helm. Way to go."

Doing so is called "Birkenhead Drill", after the steam frigate HMS Birkenhead which went down off South Africa in 1852, I think it was. Elements of many British Army units were aboard en route to South Africa. When the ship struck an uncharted rock, Colonel Alexander Seton took command of all units, and ordered them to assist in the evacuation of women and children from the ship. When that was accomplished, the men were stood to attention on deck. They remained at attention till the sea took them.

It is good to know that Seton Lake and Seton Portage, near my home, were named for the colonel when British Columbia became a province of Canada six years after the Birkenhead disaster.

Seton Portage was the principal way from the coast to the goldfields in the interior during the goldrush of 1858. It is now a rather obscure village of indigenous people quite a long way off the beaten track.

TrentePieds
Nice contrast to this slime ball

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...esco-schettino
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Old 02-09-2016, 19:33   #67
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
unbelievable about the plank. Im tryn to envision how that could happen
"Springing a plank" was common in old carvell planked wooden boats/ships.
Usually happened when corroded/weak/poor/fasteners let go while pounding into or by seas.
If the foreward fasteners let go,the plank would keep breaking more fasteners as it's fwd end opened to the sea & acted as a scoop.
Wood,canvas & sealing products were normally carried to make temp. interior patches until wx improved.
It was not unusual to "keelhaul" a tarp over the stem & back under the keel to where it would cover the hole.
In later tears,pieces of "thin" plywood were used as inside patches.
Desperation was the mother of invention & many methods were known for wooden vessels. Many of them would work on GRP-if materials & knowledge were aboard .

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Old 02-09-2016, 19:35   #68
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by quill View Post
You know the old saying,
"Don't abandon ship until you have to climb up to get into your dinghy"
Well said my friend. Only those who been aboard a vessel when it sank should be allowed to reply on this post. Having lost 2 boats under me, it ain't fun and it stays with you for a lifetime. I'm just short of 80 years old and I can remember both times like it was yesterday. Weren't my boats, either! Phil
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Old 02-09-2016, 19:42   #69
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

In an attempt to provide a serious answer, no there is no "law, at least none that comes to mind. Neither is there an objective standard, again based on my limited knowledge. There is a subjective standard (along the line of, "I believe I am gonna die if I don't get outta here") justifying one action. Ideally, you have a plan and enough information about whether to implement or not, but rarely, if ever, are such decisions made under ideal conditions. There are too many variable to create a rule for everyone under all conditions, but is not that one of the reasons many of us actually enjoy life at sea?
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Old 02-09-2016, 20:38   #70
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "Captain Smith went down with his ship, Titanic, while standing at attention behind the helm. Way to go."

Doing so is called "Birkenhead Drill", after the steam frigate HMS Birkenhead which went down off South Africa in 1852, I think it was.
I don't think anyone knows what Capt Smith was doing...
from biography.com

'He was last seen headed for the bridge.

After 2 a.m. the next morning, the Titanic fully slipped into the dark cold waters of the North Atlantic, taking its captain with it. Several stories emerged about how his life ended. There were reports that he had shot himself on the bridge. Another had him in the water, swimming with an infant in tow and putting the child on a lifeboat before slipping beneath the water. It is commonly held, however, that Smith followed the marine tradition of remaining aboard his doomed vessel.'

And also Titanic: How did Captain Smith spend last moments - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
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Old 02-09-2016, 20:47   #71
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

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Originally Posted by KRANK View Post
Hello to all.
Do you remember Costa Concordia disaster at the Mediterranean few years ago?
Captain was accused mainly on 2 facts: 1. he caused the accident; 2. he abandoned the ship after the accident. Italian courts ruled against him as you can read hereby:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ter-conviction

So, in a way, according to what is happening to Franchesco Schettino, it seems there is a sort of regulation about it.

When getting my yatching license in Spain, I've always been told:
1. To order the abandon of the ship only when the sea offers more protection than the boat (when boat sinks, for example)
2. Only to abandon the ship AFTER everybody is safe.

I hope I helped to clarify
Good post!
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Old 02-09-2016, 20:49   #72
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

No one knows. I've read the inquest transcripts. What was interesting is how many of the crew stepped into the water as she went down or jumped just before. Also interesting is those that survived like that all had life vests on. It was quite proof for the lifevest vote
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:03   #73
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

My first boat capsized, I (solo) stayed on board - I learned then the power of an upside down hull.
Decades later a boat sank under me
but only as we rammed it back into shallow waters near shore.
Abandoning is only something you do when you see the boat will not float any further.
If it has any chance of floating then you work that chance until it resolves itself
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:23   #74
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pirate Re: When do you abandon ship?

[/ATTACH]Been on a potential 'sinker' in the Western approaches of the Straits of Gibraltar.. it was on a Catalac I was delivering.. got hit by on of that area's 'Instant Gales' in a wind over tide situation.. we'd cleared Trafalgar via the inshore channel and were tacking towards Africa in an Easterly 4 and were around 12 miles off shore when the wind went up to a F8 and gusting in about 10minutes.. the sea's built up fast to around 12ft with little space in the troughs.. we'd climb one then dive into the trough with the following wave sweeping over the top before she could recover.. this was the pattern for the next 4 hours..
I furled in the genny however there was no way I could safely go to the mast to drop the main.. I started the engines (2 x 10hp Bukhs) and used them to keep us head to wind as turning would have had us inverted in a flash.. then started crabbing towards Spain..
After a couple of hours of this I asked my crew to go below and check things forward.. she came back and said the bedding in the master cabin fwd was soaked as water jetted through the hatches each time a wave broke over us and swept aft.. half hour later when she checked she came back to say there was ankle deep water in each hull.. I asked her to start pumping the bilge pumps while I called Tarifa Traffic Control to alert them re our situation..
5 minutes later she appeared with a Whale pump in her hand.. it had ripped out of the bulkhead.. old rotten ply.
The water by this time the water was approaching shin deep for her so I called Tarifa again and requested assistance.. by this time we'd crabbed in to about 4 miles from Barbette.. the tide had turned and the waves were starting to space out and though we were still slamming they were not bursting over the top of the boat.
About this time the SAR Lifeboat arrived and I asked them if they could stand by ready to assist but.. I wanted to try and get the boat in.. also could they guide me through the Tuna Nets that sit about a mile off the entrance to Barbette.. no time to go below and check charts as I was still having to use the engines to control the boat.. the small rudders were useless in the conditions..
Another hour saw us into water quiet enough to turn beam to the sea's and make Barbette.. all in all a scary event.. not at the time though.. it was only after tying up and going below did I realise how very close we had come to going down..
6 days later the gale had died as suddenly as it appeared and the sea's were mirror smooth so we motored out of Barbette, through the Straits and on to Almerimar where the boat was lifted out and the hull repaired.. also at my insistence the owner had electric bilge pumps installed.
From there on to Pendik, Turkey in the Marmaris was largely uneventful..
Picture of damage.. repair and the boat..
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:43   #75
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Re: When do you abandon ship?

When do you abandon ship? When it gets to this point:



For those who don't know, this is a photo of RaphaŽl Dinelli hanging on to a line on his semi-submerged yacht during the 1996/97 Vendee Globe. RaphaŽl Dinelli was saved by British competitor Pete Goss who performed the rescue in Hurricane force winds.
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