What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

[Jacko]

Don't know him from a bar of soap Old Aussie saying !!!!!!!!!!!!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I'm kind of surprised that a lot of people seem to think that the crew member was withholding info. How is he supposed to know what to tell the captain? He doesn't, that's why the captain's responsibility is to ask all of the right questions PRIOR to having the guy fly out.

Now if the crew member said he had no health issues in the first interview, but revealed something important in the 2nd interview, then yes, he was withholding info. Personally, the fact that there was a 2nd interview indicates to me that the first interview wasn't well thought out or thorough, and that's entirely the captain's fault.

I'm going off the experience with this thread where the OP leaves out the fact there was a medical issue until someone else apparently with inside knowledge of the situation outed him.

He the OP dances around the subject in a follow up post while never telling us quite what is wrong so we can understand if it's something that would logically scare the Captain.

Since the OP hasn't chosen to provide more information, it's logical to assume he took the same approach with the Captain. He claims to have PhD related to his issue so presumably it's a pretty major item in his life and probably worthy of bringing up before he step on the dock.

The OP doesn't have to reveal his condition to us but given the way he's presented his case, it leads me to believe it is a concern or at least would seem to be a concern to a non-medical professional. Thus justifying the Captains decision.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I think I've already posted my answer in this topic No point in re-posting my earlier posts.

Rather than just repeating yourself, why don't you clarify your previous post.

You used the term "health issue." That's a very vague term, perhaps you could give me a comprehensive list of "health issues" that would preclude you from taking Fred on as a crew member.

If you can't or won't do that, how is anyone, including Fred, supposed to know what would exclude him from being a crewmember? Is it his fault that you didn't?

Because it seems clear to me that since the captain did not cover all of the pertinent "issues" prior to his flight, somehow you seem to feel that Fred hid this issue.

He said he answered all of the captain's questions fully and honestly, for reasons of privacy he shouldn't have to divulge his entire medical history, especially if it had no bearing on his ability to sail his own boats or serve as a crewmember in the past.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Rather than just repeating yourself, why don't you clarify your previous post.

If you read back, you'll find my take on the whole situation. Which is, as stated, just another opinion, and all the OP asked for.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I'm going off the experience with this thread where the OP leaves out the fact there was a medical issue until someone else apparently with inside knowledge of the situation outed him.

He the OP dances around the subject in a follow up post while never telling us quite what is wrong so we can understand if it's something that would logically scare the Captain.

Since the OP hasn't chosen to provide more information, it's logical to assume he took the same approach with the Captain. He claims to have PhD related to his issue so presumably it's a pretty major item in his life and probably worthy of bringing up before he step on the dock.

The OP doesn't have to reveal his condition to us but given the way he's presented his case, it leads me to believe it is a concern or at least would seem to be a concern to a non-medical professional. Thus justifying the Captains decision.

The Captain's decision was his own, and since he's not a medical professional, who knows if his opinion and decision was valid or not? It was a decision he arbitrarily made. The time to ask all of the questions and make that decision os before a crewmember flies out.

Perhaps mental illness is something I'd rather not have on my boat. I have an ex GF who is a certified family therapist who originally got into therapy due to mental health issues. Her father and step mother were both clinical psychotherapists who also told me they got into psychotherapy because it had helped them both with with their own mental health issues.

None of the 3 of them would feel that their mental health history would preclude them from being on a sailboat, but there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't take them on as crew if they knew about it.

For obvious reasons, they don't discuss their mental health issues unless they feel it is germaine. It doesn't affect their every day lives (now), or their careers, so they don't bring it up. Nobody would. Again, the captain should have been more comprehensive in his questions BEFORE Fred spent his money to fly.

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

The Captain's decision was his own, and since he's not a medical professional, who knows if his opinion and decision was valid or not? It was a decision he arbitrarily made. The time to ask all of the questions and make that decision os before a crewmember flies out.

Perhaps mental illness is something I'd rather not have on my boat. I have an ex GF who is a certified family therapist who originally got into therapy due to mental health issues. Her father and step mother were both clinical psychotherapists who also told me they got into psychotherapy because it had helped them both with with their own mental health issues.

None of the 3 of them would feel that their mental health history would preclude them from being on a sailboat, but there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't take them on as crew if they knew about it.

For obvious reasons, they don't discuss their mental health issues unless they feel it is germaine. It doesn't affect their every day lives (now), or their careers, so they don't bring it up. Nobody would. Again, the captain should have been more comprehensive in his questions BEFORE Fred spent his money to fly.

Precisely.Perfect summation.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Rather than just repeating yourself, why don't you clarify your previous post.

You used the term "health issue." That's a very vague term, perhaps you could give me a comprehensive list of "health issues" that would preclude you from taking Fred on as a crew member.

If you can't or won't do that, how is anyone, including Fred, supposed to know what would exclude him from being a crewmember? Is it his fault that you didn't?

Because it seems clear to me that since the captain did not cover all of the pertinent "issues" prior to his flight, somehow you seem to feel that Fred hid this issue.

He said he answered all of the captain's questions fully and honestly, for reasons of privacy he shouldn't have to divulge his entire medical history, especially if it had no bearing on his ability to sail his own boats or serve as a crewmember in the past.

Do you have an all inclusive list of medical issues that a captain must ask? Are captains required to have a medical background?

This is a volunteer crew position. I don't think the plan was to strap him to the mast and do dental surgery on him.

[socaldmax]

I'll be totally honest here, if I were a captain looking for crewmembers, I'd ask a million questions before letting someone on my boat. Aside from medical issues, I'd ask about your political views, family background, work history, personal references, any crackpot conspiracy theories.

There are a lot of reasons why someone wouldn't be a good fit.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

The Captain's decision was his own, and since he's not a medical professional, who knows if his opinion and decision was valid or not? It was a decision he arbitrarily made. The time to ask all of the questions and make that decision os before a crewmember flies out.

Perhaps mental illness is something I'd rather not have on my boat. I have an ex GF who is a certified family therapist who originally got into therapy due to mental health issues. Her father and step mother were both clinical psychotherapists who also told me they got into psychotherapy because it had helped them both with with their own mental health issues.

None of the 3 of them would feel that their mental health history would preclude them from being on a sailboat, but there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't take them on as crew if they knew about it.

For obvious reasons, they don't discuss their mental health issues unless they feel it is germaine. It doesn't affect their every day lives (now), or their careers, so they don't bring it up. Nobody would. Again, the captain should have been more comprehensive in his questions BEFORE Fred spent his money to fly.

I agree, it sounds like the OP took the approach of not disclosing the issue but it came back to bite him AFTER he spent the money and it came out that he had an issue. Play games and you don't always win.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Just because one person feels it is an issue does not mean everyone feels it is an issue.

From the OP's comments, he knew his condition could potentially be an issue.

He'd likely have saved himself the trip expenses had he mentioned it earlier.

Live and learn.

[monte]

You might like to add 'are you a compulsive whistler?' to the list of questions..

[brianlara 3]

If can be an assumption that Fred (who I dont know from Adam) is even moderately intelligent then Fred would have known from his previous sailing/qualifying experiences that his much hypothesized medical condition had either been an issue or had NOT.
He would remember wouldn't he? (doh).
And if it WAS in fact an issue/bloody awful, then surely Freddo would have never bitten those apples again.
And as Fred (and you lot don't know, SHE might actually be a a Frederika and a real Lady) has a PhD in something then surely Fred is isn't a total dunce who keeps going back onto boat after boat so that his issues can keep hitting himself over the head with a hammer he carries for self flaggelation.

DOH ! ! ! ! !

Some wise person suggested many posts ago that maybe a gorgeous girl supplanted him.
But nobody, as I recall, ran with that theory did they?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by monte

You might like to add 'are you a compulsive whistler?' to the list of questions..

I keep telling you..!!
That's Tinnitus...

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by monte

You might like to add 'are you a compulsive whistler?' to the list of questions..

Reckon you WOULD be Monte.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

If can be an assumption that Fred (who I dont know from Adam) is even moderately intelligent then Fred would have known from his previous sailing/qualifying experiences that his much hypothesized medical condition had either been an issue or had NOT.
He would remember wouldn't he? (doh).
And if it WAS in fact an issue/bloody awful, then surely Freddo would have never bitten those apples again.
And as Fred (and you lot don't know, SHE might actually be a a Frederika and a real Lady) has a PhD in something then surely Fred is isn't a total dunce who keeps going back onto boat after boat so that his issues can keep hitting himself over the head with a hammer he carries for self flaggelation.

DOH ! ! ! ! !

Some wise person suggested many posts ago that maybe a gorgeous girl supplanted him.
But nobody, as I recall, ran with that theory did they?

Anyone watch the Big Bang theory? Not suggesting Fred is the equivalent of Sheldon but yes, I can easily see someone with a mental issue doing just what you describe and expecting the Captain to be able to diagnose it from an email and a few calls is unrealistic.

Often those with mental issues are still exceedingly smart and often they will go to extreme sometimes crazy measures to hide their limitations. So while I'm not saying this is what happened here, I could easily see someone doing exactly what you describe.

Reality is probably a lot more subtle. Some people would be horrified at the idea of kids not using a car seat. Others would shrug and start the car. The Captain may be more conservative. Fred may be less conservative. It's not Fred's role to decide for the Captain if it's an acceptable risk.