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Old 21-01-2016, 02:08   #31
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by DreaminFred View Post

BTW, the "health issue" that the skipper was concerned about has never caused me to miss a day of work in 36 years, never limited my activity and you would not know I had it unless you had a laboratory or asked me a question which I would answer truthfully. And I have a PhD in the study of this health issue.
This changes the story entirely and leads me to distrust your original post a bit as it's a key point in the story that appears to have been purposely omitted. Presuambly his full knowledge of you was a few emails and a phone call before you showed up. He had no way of knowing that you had this condition or if you missed a day of work due to it.

My take is at that point, he recieved new knowledge of your phsical condition when you showed up at the dock and felt it was incompatible with taking you on as crew. That is entirely his right to determine and his responsibility if things go bad. It sounds like he did feel bad and in an act of generosity tried to help defer as much of your costs as he could afford.
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Old 21-01-2016, 03:29   #32
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Fred, clearly you aren't as experienced as some of the CF members here nor are you as qualified. But then this wasn't exactly going to be your first time at sea either.
Had you medical condition ever caused you problems which could conceivably have become issues on a cruise then it seems to me that you wouldn't have applied for the crewing job in the first place. I can't for the life of me imagine that you would have put yourself in a difficult situation had you thought that there was even the slightest chance that you weren't fit for the task. It isn't like you were prepared to risk $1,000 in the hope that you would pass muster knowing that you weren't fit.

By all accounts this owner was a reasonable person, quite experienced at what he was doing and I would have thought that it incumbent upon him to check with any prospective crew that there were no issues which might let either of you down.
Wouldn't he ask about, e.g, valid passport, police or other such problems, health issues, whether or not you had only one head etc etc......long list.

Do any of the posters here know that you are in fact Nepalese and that this man just hates everyone from the Sub Continent?? You didn't tell them right?
Nobody here knows why this man didn't like the cut of your jib. They weren't there were they!

If you were an dead set awful skinhead and then when you turned up he was horrified and so then decided to look for an out, and you said "well, yes actually, I am asthmatic but don't let that worry you", he would then have his 'out'. (no skinheads on my boat).

In my opinion there are a few too many people ready to make assumptions without knowing the facts as they were and so feeling the need to make a judgement call (who knows why?) it is you who is the Bogey Man.

Seems to me that more than a couple of CF members should remember that on this forum they are sailors first and lawyers (very) last.

As you said, this cruise was to help prepare you for a live-aboard life in the future and hopefully this bad experience wont break you.

And remember what they say about eagles and turkeys.
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Old 21-01-2016, 03:29   #33
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I have learned from experience to initially ask questions about health on any longer than a few days sailing. Even day sails, I have criteria such as white sole shoes, no children unless authorized before hand and the biggie is be on time or I leave without them.
If someone disclosed to me they had Epilepsy, I would not bring them onboard for any reason...why?...I'm responsible for them as the skipper and I am no equip to deal with the possibilities which could happen to them or other crew.
I know this all sounds harsh but sailing is not a stroll downtown.
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Old 21-01-2016, 04:05   #34
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
This changes the story entirely and leads me to distrust your original post a bit as it's a key point in the story that appears to have been purposely omitted. Presuambly his full knowledge of you was a few emails and a phone call before you showed up. He had no way of knowing that you had this condition or if you missed a day of work due to it.

My take is at that point, he recieved new knowledge of your phsical condition when you showed up at the dock and felt it was incompatible with taking you on as crew. That is entirely his right to determine and his responsibility if things go bad. It sounds like he did feel bad and in an act of generosity tried to help defer as much of your costs as he could afford.
Quite so.
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Old 21-01-2016, 04:54   #35
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Classic example of not enough information shared between the two of you. The captain should have asked about any health issues and you should have told him before traveling. I have used voluntary crew a couple of times and so far it has worked well. So far I have always been able to meet with the person first. But I can understand how this could happen without good screening. Health is one of my questions, but am sure there are others I don't have on my list yet. I ask about health, physical fitness, drinking, drugs, every been sea sick, diet and foods, allergies, sailing experience, and just try to get a good feel for how compatible we will be. I go over what expenses I will cover vs what I expect them to cover and my list of "Captain rules". Once all of this is covered, I believe you both have an obligation to follow through with the plan.

Or maybe he found some hot babe to fill your berth while you were on the plane.
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:23   #36
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

If as now seems apparent, you failed to disclose a pertinent medical condition until specifically asked, then I too side with the Skipper and feel that his making even a partial contribution to your costs was more than reasonable of him.


Does BrianLara 3 have more knowledge about this incident than the rest of us and/or an axe to grind in favour of the OP? His suggestion that we shouldn't "...make assumptions without knowing the facts as they were... suggests this might be so?
We as a forum can only proceed/debate on the basis of those facts which are provided, I noticed that this thread commenced clearly favouring the OP, but once additional facts were wheedled out of the OP, then the forum's opinion changed. I strongly suspect that this might well reflect the situation into which the OP also placed the original Skipper?

BrianLara 3 also chastises the forum for making "...a judgement call..." WTF? That is what the OP specifically asked for! Or perhaps this is a further obfuscation and only now do we learn that the actual requirement was for us make a judgement call which favoured the OP.
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:33   #37
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by bobnlesley View Post
If as now seems apparent, you failed to disclose a pertinent medical condition until specifically asked, then I too side with the Skipper and feel that his making even a partial contribution to your costs was more than reasonable of him.


Does BrianLara 3 have more knowledge about this incident than the rest of us and/or an axe to grind in favour of the OP? His suggestion that we shouldn't "...make assumptions without knowing the facts as they were... suggests this might be so?
We as a forum can only proceed/debate on the basis of those facts which are provided, I noticed that this thread commenced clearly favouring the OP, but once additional facts were wheedled out of the OP, then the forum's opinion changed. I strongly suspect that this might well reflect the situation into which the OP also placed the original Skipper?

BrianLara 3 also chastises the forum for making "...a judgement call..." WTF? That is what the OP specifically asked for! Or perhaps this is a further obfuscation and only now do we learn that the actual requirement was for us make a judgement call which favoured the OP.
Dont know the OP from a bar of soap.
Merely trying to not barbeque the guy given that the skipper WAS remiss in not asking pertinent questions before the op spent his money.Where am I wrong there ??
Could I not also ask what the agenda is of the people here supporting the skipper....is he a friend of some here?
Surely not!!
But this dialogue is a bit of a "kangaroo court" and clearly judgemental...by some.
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:39   #38
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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So all in all, as bad as I feel for you -and I do- I also fully understand the captain. Sounds like he did the best he could at the time. And no, he should have to foot the bill for your omission ...

IMHO anyway, FWIW
Is this a typo?
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:42   #39
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Boatguy-

It is the same boat and that was the skipper's concern, my issue isn't with the skipper's right to make a decision, it's with the timing and fallout of the decision. The captain of a boat is the captain, it's his decision. However, he took me on as crew- caused me to spend money, to prepare and travel to his location. And after that money was spent he welched on our deal.

He wanted free crew, he got free crew, didn't like the free crew he got and thought the bulk of the cost of his welching should be on the crew. BS.

BTW, the "health issue" that the skipper was concerned about has never caused me to miss a day of work in 36 years, never limited my activity and you would not know I had it unless you had a laboratory or asked me a question which I would answer truthfully. And I have a PhD in the study of this health issue.
While any health issue will raise further concerns, for me the transparency is the issue. Sounds like the health issue is not minor and something that should have been disclosed upfront. Even in the post you have failed to mention it when you clearly seem to know it was the reason for dismissing you.

I sympathize as I am sure you were concerned that you would be marginalized if you were forthcoming, but I am sure that fact that it was not highlighted from the start is a bigger concern for the captain.
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:49   #40
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pirate Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

My feeling is that the skipper maybe asked if there were any health issues.. to which the OP replied in all honesty 'No'... as for him it seems not an issue.. it is under control..
The skipper however finding the crew did in fact have an ongoing health problem.. the handicaps/fits/whatever/unknown by us.. concluded that in his judgement it was unsafe to sail with the OP for both their sake's.. it can be wild and woolly beyond imagination offshore..
Or.. more likely.. came to the conclusion that (in his perception) he'd been bullshitted once.. shame on you.. bullshitted twice.. shame on him...
Some of us just can't handle the shame..
Next time be up front.. one person who sails with me is Diabetic, another Thyroids.. no problem just make sure they have twice as many med's as the trip needs.. in case.!!
Phone/video calls are all well and good but its when one meets the true vibes come through.. and I personally will not sail with bad vibe's..
Been there.. Done that..!!
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Old 21-01-2016, 05:57   #41
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Blowing a truckload of cash for no reason whatsoever is actually a pretty good reality check for liveaboard dreams 🤑
HAHA!!!

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

Phone/video calls are all well and good but its when one meets the true vibes come through.. and I personally will not sail with bad vibe's..
Been there.. Done that..!!
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Old 21-01-2016, 06:10   #42
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Dont know the OP from a bar of soap.
Merely trying to not barbeque the guy given that the skipper WAS remiss in not asking pertinent questions before the op spent his money.Where am I wrong there ??
Could I not also ask what the agenda is of the people here supporting the skipper....is he a friend of some here?
Surely not!!
But this dialogue is a bit of a "kangaroo court" and clearly judgemental...by some.
I know neither the OP or the Captain from a bar of soap (that's a wierd turn of phrase, never heard before)...

While it's clearly better to ask, it would be reasonable to assume anyone signing up for an offshore passage and not mentioning medical conditions is healthy and has none. If the Captain is at all remiss, the OP is even more so for not bringing it up and addressing it before he arrived and put the Captain in a difficult position.

While the OP has no obligation to share his medical condition on a public forum, it is is telling that he left it out of the original post completely and even after it came to light he dances around the edges never telling us what it is. There are people in wheel chairs that don't miss work. Doesn't mean they would be perfect as crew on a short handed boat.

As far as judgemental kangaroos...he asked for our opinion while being very judgemental towards the Captain who it appears he put in a tough situation.
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Old 21-01-2016, 06:24   #43
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I know neither the OP or the Captain from a bar of soap (that's a wierd turn of phrase, never heard before)...

While it's clearly better to ask, it would be reasonable to assume anyone signing up for an offshore passage and not mentioning medical conditions is healthy and has none. If the Captain is at all remiss, the OP is even more so for not bringing it up and addressing it before he arrived and put the Captain in a difficult position.

While the OP has no obligation to share his medical condition on a public forum, it is is telling that he left it out of the original post completely and even after it came to light he dances around the edges never telling us what it is. There are people in wheel chairs that don't miss work. Doesn't mean they would be perfect as crew on a short handed boat.

As far as judgemental kangaroos...he asked for our opinion while being very judgemental towards the Captain who it appears he put in a tough situation.
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Old 21-01-2016, 06:30   #44
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pirate Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
Dont know the OP from a bar of soap.
Merely trying to not barbeque the guy given that the skipper WAS remiss in not asking pertinent questions before the op spent his money.Where am I wrong there ??
Could I not also ask what the agenda is of the people here supporting the skipper....is he a friend of some here?
Surely not!!
But this dialogue is a bit of a "kangaroo court" and clearly judgemental...by some.
Don't know about a 'Kangaroo Court'..
A question was posed.. opinions were passed.. more info came to light so some skippers have passed an opinion on what their attitudes are.
Myself.. I have sailed with owners crews and some I have taken on after being asked.. alki's, mild cold turkeying, epileptic.. that's a scarey surprise.
Now I sail only with people I know.. personally.. once weather kicks in a boat gets really small and having to share it with someone I either dislike or distrust just lays more stress on my back..
Oh I can do it easy enough if forced to, but.. I'd rather not have too...

PS; I find buying return tickets with a 7 day turnaround fun.. if it turns to ***** you at least get a holiday.. tho' in my last case.. 7 days in a NJ motel was definitely NOT Disneyworld..
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Old 21-01-2016, 06:31   #45
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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The issue is who should bear the cost of the decision?
You should.
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