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Old 24-01-2016, 01:58   #241
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Sorta kinda maybe know what one, or possibly a combination of medical conditions maybe coulda possibly were.

My first question if the speculation about these possible medical issues is true is what meds does the OP take, if he takes any.

Just as an aside I take all pix of peeps on the internet with a grain of salt, especially a vita of an academic.
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:59   #242
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I'm am not sure anyone substantiated the Skipper was near broke. If he pulled $260 out of his pocket it was probably pin money. I can't see making him the bad guy. I still think the OP is looking for sympathy and didn't disclose what would have been prevalent on the phone? Would you rather the Skipper put the rest of the crew or himself in peril. Then we could hang him out to dry here for not vetting his crew.
No.


As I've stated before, I think the captain should have asked ALL pertinent questions prior to telling Fred to fly out. Once he told Fred to fly out, that should have been the end of the interviewing, as far as deal breakers go.

In a perfect world, the captain would have been sharp enough to ask all of the right questions before Fred flew and spent his money. But we all know it's not a perfect world, that's why they always screw your order up in the drive thru, because there are a lot of less than sharp people out there.


Again, why do you feel that his "issue" would have put anyone in peril? It obviously did not on any previous trip. Why would it now?
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Old 24-01-2016, 02:31   #243
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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As I've stated before, I think the captain should have asked ALL pertinent questions prior to telling Fred to fly out. Once he told Fred to fly out, that should have been the end of the interviewing, as far as deal breakers go.
Good luck with that when you have a guy leave out key information and you are given the choice of taking on a huge liability or forking over a couple grand to get rid of him.
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Old 24-01-2016, 15:20   #244
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Saying you have a PhD in something can be hyperbole! For example, I have a PhD from the school of hard knocks. If he has Herpies simplex virus he might be well read on current medical literature, treatments, anti viral agents, sequelae....in other words very well versed in his condition.
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Old 24-01-2016, 15:33   #245
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Saying you have a PhD in something can be hyperbole! For example, I have a PhD from the school of hard knocks. If he has Herpies simplex virus he might be well read on current medical literature, treatments, anti viral agents, sequelae....in other words very well versed in his condition.
Why introduce something that is simply not the case

Hes got a phd in physiology. Thats not hyperbole.
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Old 24-01-2016, 15:58   #246
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Why introduce something that is simply not the case

Hes got a phd in physiology. Thats not hyperbole.
The OP stated that his degree is related to his medical condition. Then to find out that it is a very broad term such as "physiology" is very strange as it can cover a multitude of conditions from very innocuous to severely debilitating.
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Old 24-01-2016, 16:23   #247
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
The OP stated that his degree is related to his medical condition. Then to find out that it is a very broad term such as "physiology" is very strange as it can cover a multitude of conditions from very innocuous to severely debilitating.
Simpler, it is a mound of BS.
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Old 24-01-2016, 16:45   #248
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I gave some input in my earlier post (#194). On reflection, the fundamental problem is the failure to agree in advance on how to handle a situation where either crew or skipper declined, for whatever reason. No matter how many questions are asked and answered there is always going to be a significant chance that one party will want to back out after a face-to-face encounter, so that should have been agreed before travel.

I have only taken on crew sight unseen on a single occasion, and I didn't even consider the possibility of backing out after the crew had paid to fly NYC-USVI. Luckily he was a very helpful and enjoyable crew for the trip to Bermuda. These days I doubt that I would even consider such a situation, but if I did there would be an agreement in place regarding airfare in the event of a no-go.

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Old 24-01-2016, 17:07   #249
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Some of the posts have made disparaging remarks about the skipper because he (apparently) wasn't well financed. This is unfair. I have certainly known skippers cruising on a shoestring that were proud to be self-sufficient and a burden on no one, and barring further evidence I assume this to be the case here. Of course I have met a few cruisers who do try to transfer the costs of their dream to others, by charging crew, not paying bills (esp. marina and boatyard), and rarely outright theft. Unfortunately these few often spoil things for the rest, creating distrust at destinations where we were previously welcomed warmly. I just don't think that justifies a prejudice against all cruisers on a low budget.

Greg

[Edit:] I should add that I have had more than one experience of crew who wanted everyone else to pay for their dream. They are a real education. And not an experience to be repeated (although I inadvertently did).
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Old 24-01-2016, 18:24   #250
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

If the OP is the person described by that linkedin page I would accept without reservation his assurance regarding his own health.

I'd be proud to have achieved half as much.
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Old 24-01-2016, 20:19   #251
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Again, why do you feel that his "issue" would have put anyone in peril? It obviously did not on any previous trip. Why would it now?
--socaldmax

Actually, it is not obvious: it might have happened before, and that was not disclosed. And he's established a history of withholding.

Here's why it might be a problem now, even though it has not been, before. If he has a condition that requires medication, all that it would take for his presence to be a problem to himself and others would be unexpectedly getting seasick. Uuuurp! out goes the meds, to be followed by "x" symptoms. Not a good deal.

Suppose he's highly allergic to peanuts, and does not disclose. It's never been an issue as a sailor before, but you've planned satay dinners and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch. Faillure to disclose is a problem.

The main issue was the failure to disclose in the beginning. Failure to disclose shows you to be hiding something, therefore not trustworthy. You (as skipper taking on crew) cannot afford to have trust problems with a crew person. It would be intolerable.

Ann
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Old 24-01-2016, 20:36   #252
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I dont believe there is enough knowledge in this entire thread to make ANY conclusions on either the skipper or the OP. We dont know the OP's condition, which means no one can can really comment in it. Any attempts are just conjecture. Nothing more.

Nor can anyone make legitamate criticisms about the skipper. none.

Nor can anyone make legitamate criticism about the OP's honesty or of hiding things. And suggestions the OP now has a history of being decietful are just rediculous to say the least. We simply dont know. We dont have the skippers side of the story (never did) and we have very little of the OP's given he's decided not to continue input on the thread. And i dont really blame him given how quickly conjecture builds on here.

Without knowing the 'condition', NOTHING further is known. Its all just guessing.
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Old 24-01-2016, 21:04   #253
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Thumbs up Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
I think "welching" is an extremely strong word, and inappropriate in this circumstance. Frankly the skipper obviously needed crew and the inconvenience to him would likewise have been great. In a neutral judgement I would say that he is a good skipper for having taken the no doubt tough decision to forgo the crew he had deemed he needed and had obviously invested time and care in selecting, for this voyage. Further, he was himself out of pocket. It seems your gripe is that he didn't cover ALL your costs, including your time/opportunity cost. Well… you cost him time and opportunity as well, especially as you only disclosed the medical condition on arrival for the trip, obviously leaving him with little time to find another crewmember, something which he had obviously thought was dealt with and for which he had exhibited long care and planning, but yet you disregard this in your post and your reasoning. Further, it sounds very much to me like you are EXTREMELY aware of this physical condition of yours (do you genuinely hold a PhD in this subject, or was that a hyperbole? Either way it is obviously foremost in your mind). And yet it sounds rather like you failed to inform the skipper of this condition prior to arrival at the vessel. That somewhat sounds like deception on your part. And now you come on an international forum to complain about it? This makes me wonder whether it was only the medical condition which fed into the skipper's decision. I am extremely careful about who I take offshore. A good skipper must be. Any hint of deception or similar and the deal is well off. Your version seems to me to be your version. You came on here with it, and signally failed to disclose the very thing you failed to disclose to this skipper, and then seek to place the blame entirely on him and get us to cheerlead for your extraction of your entire costs (plus opportunity cost/time lost) from the guy you did the same thing to. You equally fail to acknowledge the debits and costs to the skipper in question, which are not trivial. This seems rather self regarding. You go on rather in the OP about the intense questioning which was answered "frankly and honestly" etc. etc., which seems to me to be seeking do hide the fact that you knew all along that you were concealing this fact from him, and you are now trying to shift the blame on to him for not having guessed it in a game of 20 questions! None of this impresses me, at all.

Personally my "gut" is with the skipper on this one, rather strongly.
Mr Muckle has it right in my opinion... As a West Coast delivery skipper for a number of years, I was fortunate to have experienced crews whom I could call on for deliveries up and down the coast. I provide them with steady work, good pay and the opportunity to build their respective resumes.
Only once I recall having to hire an individual for a trip from Cabo San Lucas up to San Diego who I didn't know. One of my regular crew was not available but the other was so after meeting and interviewing the new crew member and checking his references, I took him on. Two days out he lost it which is when I found out he was bi polar without his meds and had to return him to Cabo, gave him bus fare to the US and dumped him off. He sued me saying I should have paid him airfare to the US and medical treatment.
My responsibility was to return him to the port where he signed on and give him his walking papers which was what the judge Stateside agreed was fair.
But it was an inconvenience, had to sail short handed and sucked up a lot of unnessary time to sort the mess out.
That is how I see the skippers obligation. Not knowing the extent of the complainers health problem, it is really difficult to sort it out prior to departure legally. Personality, I think the skipper dodged a speeding bullet! Phil
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Old 24-01-2016, 21:04   #254
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Between Ann and Lizzy there is nothing for me to say. Well said Ladies!
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Old 24-01-2016, 21:04   #255
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
--socaldmax

Actually, it is not obvious: it might have happened before, and that was not disclosed. And he's established a history of withholding.

Here's why it might be a problem now, even though it has not been, before. If he has a condition that requires medication, all that it would take for his presence to be a problem to himself and others would be unexpectedly getting seasick. Uuuurp! out goes the meds, to be followed by "x" symptoms. Not a good deal.

Suppose he's highly allergic to peanuts, and does not disclose. It's never been an issue as a sailor before, but you've planned satay dinners and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch. Faillure to disclose is a problem.

The main issue was the failure to disclose in the beginning. Failure to disclose shows you to be hiding something, therefore not trustworthy. You (as skipper taking on crew) cannot afford to have trust problems with a crew person. It would be intolerable.

Ann
Your entire argument is based on the supposition in bold.

There are obvious reasons why people don't publish their entire medical histories online.
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