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Old 23-01-2016, 02:54   #196
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
You keep claiming that he withheld information, but he posted that he answered the captain's questions fully and honestly in the phone interviews before he flew out. For some strange reason, you and others keep omitting that part of the story. It makes me think you're untrustworthy.

Please explain why no other captain had ever excluded him from a delivery for this alleged condition.
.
Go read the initial post. No mention was made to health being the reason. That is withheld information that he didn't admit to untill someone called him out on it.
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Old 23-01-2016, 02:59   #197
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Sure.


"Do you have ANY medical condition that has ever been noted in any examination or that you have ever been treated for? Do not assume they do not matter, I'm requesting that you divulge your entire medical history to me, no matter how trivial, PRIOR to you boarding the plane."
You just proved my point. Are you going to require the Captain to also ask for blood samples and a urine test?

Obviously, this wasn't a trivial health issue or the Captain wouldn't have denied him a berth. If it's at all a gray area, the burden is on the crew to let the Captain know ahead of time and explain why it won't be an issue.
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Old 23-01-2016, 03:05   #198
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
This is all conjecture
The OP admitted it was a medical issue he hadn't disclosed. The only question is if the medical issue was sufficent justification.

Obviously, the Captain noticed something when the OP arrived or the medical issue wouldn't have barred him from the trip.

The Captain is the final arbitor and the OP has failed to provide any information to indicate the Captain was unreasonable in his judgement.

The OP's original post mentioned nothing of a medical issue being the reason while painting the Captain in a very poor light.

Where is the conjecture? I fail to see it.
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Old 23-01-2016, 04:23   #199
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
The OP admitted it was a medical issue he hadn't disclosed. The only question is if the medical issue was sufficent justification.

Obviously, the Obviously, the Captain noticed something when the OP arrived or the medical issue wouldn't have barred him from the tripCaptain noticed something when the OP arrived or the medical issue wouldn't have barred him from the trip.

The Captain is the final arbitor and the OP has failed to provide any information to indicate the Captain was unreasonable in his judgement.

The OP's original post mentioned nothing of a medical issue being the reason while painting the Captain in a very poor light.

Where is the conjecture? I fail to see it.
"Obviously, the Captain noticed something when the OP arrived or the medical issue wouldn't have barred him from the trip" = conjecture
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Old 23-01-2016, 06:54   #200
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

My take is that:

1) The OP came here looking for sympathy and reinforcement that he had the right to be pissed.
2) The OP did not disclose to us the reason for the skipper dismissing him until he was called out by another forum user for having a medical condition.
3) Even after he was called out he will not share with us the medical reasons.

I have several medical conditions that might cause a skipper to not want me as crew depending on the skipper's comfort level with my conditions. I have:

a) Diabetes, diet controlled.
b) A left arm artificial wrist (internal prosthetic) which limits my left hand load to 25 lbs
c) Obesity - I am about 70 lbs over weight
d) One knee pops and has pain occasionally
e) I am a recovering alcoholic / addict, having quit all of my stuff 30 years ago.

OK, so all of these things I am comfortable with, I own my own boat and can and do sail (even solo) with all of these conditions. All except the obesity are not clearly visible / obvious.

That said, there is not a one of these that I am uncomfortable talking about, even publicly.

So my take is that the OP came looking for sympathy and validity. Whatever his condition is, he believes that if we were to know the condition we would not sympathize with him, we would find that condition to be a risk too great to take aboard, or at the least would be understanding of the captain not wanting to take on that risk.

He doesn't share the condition with us for the exact same reason he didn't share it with the captain, because he knew that there was a high risk it would cause a rejection and he wanted this trip (and he wanted our sympathy). It did cause a rejection and now he is irritated.

I can tell you that personally, if I had a condition that I had to go get a PHd to understand and treat, I would be upfront and VOLUNTEER that information before I ever set foot on an airplane to go crew for someone. It would be the very first thing that I mentioned, even before a long drawn out interview about my qualifications.

If it really did not cause any problems, and if I could clearly argue that point, and the skipper still rejected me, then I am ahead of the game instead of behind the eight ball.
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Old 23-01-2016, 07:18   #201
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pirate Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
My take is that:

1) The OP came here looking for sympathy and reinforcement that he had the right to be pissed.
2) The OP did not disclose to us the reason for the skipper dismissing him until he was called out by another forum user for having a medical condition.
3) Even after he was called out he will not share with us the medical reasons.

I have several medical conditions that might cause a skipper to not want me as crew depending on the skipper's comfort level with my conditions. I have:

a) Diabetes, diet controlled.
b) A left arm artificial wrist (internal prosthetic) which limits my left hand load to 25 lbs
c) Obesity - I am about 70 lbs over weight
d) One knee pops and has pain occasionally
e) I am a recovering alcoholic / addict, having quit all of my stuff 30 years ago.

OK, so all of these things I am comfortable with, I own my own boat and can and do sail (even solo) with all of these conditions. All except the obesity are not clearly visible / obvious.

That said, there is not a one of these that I am uncomfortable talking about, even publicly.

So my take is that the OP came looking for sympathy and validity. Whatever his condition is, he believes that if we were to know the condition we would not sympathize with him, we would find that condition to be a risk too great to take aboard, or at the least would be understanding of the captain not wanting to take on that risk.

He doesn't share the condition with us for the exact same reason he didn't share it with the captain, because he knew that there was a high risk it would cause a rejection and he wanted this trip (and he wanted our sympathy). It did cause a rejection and now he is irritated.

I can tell you that personally, if I had a condition that I had to go get a PHd to understand and treat, I would be upfront and VOLUNTEER that information before I ever set foot on an airplane to go crew for someone. It would be the very first thing that I mentioned, even before a long drawn out interview about my qualifications.

If it really did not cause any problems, and if I could clearly argue that point, and the skipper still rejected me, then I am ahead of the game instead of behind the eight ball.
Nice Post..

Thank you..
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Old 23-01-2016, 07:19   #202
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pirate Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Nice Post..

Thank you..
Dem ain't flowers.. dat's Spinach..
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Old 23-01-2016, 07:21   #203
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
"Obviously, the Captain noticed something when the OP arrived or the medical issue wouldn't have barred him from the trip" = conjecture
You are confusing "deduction" with "conjecture".

Logically, the Captain must have noticed something if he refused passage on medical grounds.
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Old 23-01-2016, 07:33   #204
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
My take is that:



1) The OP came here looking for sympathy and reinforcement that he had the right to be pissed.

2) The OP did not disclose to us the reason for the skipper dismissing him until he was called out by another forum user for having a medical condition.

3) Even after he was called out he will not share with us the medical reasons.



I have several medical conditions that might cause a skipper to not want me as crew depending on the skipper's comfort level with my conditions. I have:



a) Diabetes, diet controlled.

b) A left arm artificial wrist (internal prosthetic) which limits my left hand load to 25 lbs

c) Obesity - I am about 70 lbs over weight

d) One knee pops and has pain occasionally

e) I am a recovering alcoholic / addict, having quit all of my stuff 30 years ago.



OK, so all of these things I am comfortable with, I own my own boat and can and do sail (even solo) with all of these conditions. All except the obesity are not clearly visible / obvious.



That said, there is not a one of these that I am uncomfortable talking about, even publicly.



So my take is that the OP came looking for sympathy and validity. Whatever his condition is, he believes that if we were to know the condition we would not sympathize with him, we would find that condition to be a risk too great to take aboard, or at the least would be understanding of the captain not wanting to take on that risk.



He doesn't share the condition with us for the exact same reason he didn't share it with the captain, because he knew that there was a high risk it would cause a rejection and he wanted this trip (and he wanted our sympathy). It did cause a rejection and now he is irritated.



I can tell you that personally, if I had a condition that I had to go get a PHd to understand and treat, I would be upfront and VOLUNTEER that information before I ever set foot on an airplane to go crew for someone. It would be the very first thing that I mentioned, even before a long drawn out interview about my qualifications.



If it really did not cause any problems, and if I could clearly argue that point, and the skipper still rejected me, then I am ahead of the game instead of behind the eight ball.

Good post JW, nothing there that would exclude you from crewing with us if you were upfront about it. The possibility of you dying onboard or invading the ships wine supply would be taken into account when considering other likely scenarios, such as hitting a whale or a container or sailing into a hurricane. Pretty low chance of any of those with some good pre passage planning, but hey, if it's going to happen, it'll happen out there 🐳
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Old 23-01-2016, 08:46   #205
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

A captain's crew is no different than tools in a tradesman's tool bag. We pick the ones we want.

Sometimes it's personal, sometimes practical.

The fact that he handed u money to go away is an indication ( to me ) that he felt for ya.

I have been sent down the road many times. It is just a part of life.

Dealing with it and moving on is a sign of maturity.
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Old 23-01-2016, 08:54   #206
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Steven Hawkins very rarely takes a day off...


Should have thought of him as an example before the OP abandoned ship, so to speak.
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Old 23-01-2016, 09:18   #207
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
My take is that:

1) The OP came here looking for sympathy and reinforcement that he had the right to be pissed.
2) The OP did not disclose to us the reason for the skipper dismissing him until he was called out by another forum user for having a medical condition.
3) Even after he was called out he will not share with us the medical reasons.

I have several medical conditions that might cause a skipper to not want me as crew depending on the skipper's comfort level with my conditions. I have:

a) Diabetes, diet controlled.
b) A left arm artificial wrist (internal prosthetic) which limits my left hand load to 25 lbs
c) Obesity - I am about 70 lbs over weight
d) One knee pops and has pain occasionally
e) I am a recovering alcoholic / addict, having quit all of my stuff 30 years ago.

OK, so all of these things I am comfortable with, I own my own boat and can and do sail (even solo) with all of these conditions. All except the obesity are not clearly visible / obvious.

That said, there is not a one of these that I am uncomfortable talking about, even publicly.

So my take is that the OP came looking for sympathy and validity. Whatever his condition is, he believes that if we were to know the condition we would not sympathize with him, we would find that condition to be a risk too great to take aboard, or at the least would be understanding of the captain not wanting to take on that risk.

He doesn't share the condition with us for the exact same reason he didn't share it with the captain, because he knew that there was a high risk it would cause a rejection and he wanted this trip (and he wanted our sympathy). It did cause a rejection and now he is irritated.

I can tell you that personally, if I had a condition that I had to go get a PHd to understand and treat, I would be upfront and VOLUNTEER that information before I ever set foot on an airplane to go crew for someone. It would be the very first thing that I mentioned, even before a long drawn out interview about my qualifications.

If it really did not cause any problems, and if I could clearly argue that point, and the skipper still rejected me, then I am ahead of the game instead of behind the eight ball.

Very well put!

I would add, on behalf of skippers everywhere, that 1) The Skipper has the legal and moral responsibility for putting together crew. It's the skipper's call. Sometimes, with larger crew, all are excellent, but two just don't get along. The skipper has to pick which one to ditch....no one's fault, but he has to make the call. An unhappy ship is a dangerous ship. 2) The skipper has invested far more, in money, time, and effort, than any crew, so don't even think the skipper doesn't have skin in the game. It's the skipper's trip, obviously, and he or she is hoping to find crew, not turn them away. It's just as much a loss for the skipper. 4) In entering any partnership, it's only human to leave things unsaid that might scuttle the deal at the outset. It's also unrealistic and selfish. Be upfront, not just with that which concerns YOU, but also with what might concern the other party. Then try to address it. If that doesn't work, it wasn't going to work anyway, and you save lots of grief. 4) In life, many things turn out to be different than described. Think online dating! Or, going to look at a prospective boat purchase that one has searched out over the internet, phone, email, or whatever. This board is full of those sorts of disappointments and people have not necessarily been dishonest. Things look different through different eyes. But that is life and it's the chance you take. 5) I can't believe that people are still discussing this, and I doubt very much that many of the skipper bashers have ever actually put together a crew, or a cruise of any distance, or they would have a better understanding. Once bitten, twice shy. It's why most people cruise shorthanded to some degree or another.
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Old 23-01-2016, 11:49   #208
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Getting a crew together for international travel is a challenge since the skipper is financially responsible for the crew, whether paid or not, in all foreign ports. Can be a financial disaster. So start out with a healthy crew not wanted by Interpol and are financially well off. A bunch of us old guys sailed across the pond several years ago. Each was required to have international health insurance, credit cards or membership in a program that would evacuate them from anywhere to anywhere, and a "clean" bill of health from their doctor.

Average age was 78 years old. No one had a problem, but it was good to know that we were prepared. We did also carry two body bags just in case.
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Old 23-01-2016, 11:56   #209
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Go read the initial post. No mention was made to health being the reason. That is withheld information that he didn't admit to untill someone called him out on it.
The whole thing is a he said she said situation.
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Old 23-01-2016, 12:32   #210
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
My take is that:

1) The OP came here looking for sympathy and reinforcement that he had the right to be pissed.
2) The OP did not disclose to us the reason for the skipper dismissing him until he was called out by another forum user for having a medical condition.
3) Even after he was called out he will not share with us the medical reasons.

I have several medical conditions that might cause a skipper to not want me as crew depending on the skipper's comfort level with my conditions. I have:

a) Diabetes, diet controlled.
b) A left arm artificial wrist (internal prosthetic) which limits my left hand load to 25 lbs
c) Obesity - I am about 70 lbs over weight
d) One knee pops and has pain occasionally
e) I am a recovering alcoholic / addict, having quit all of my stuff 30 years ago.

OK, so all of these things I am comfortable with, I own my own boat and can and do sail (even solo) with all of these conditions. All except the obesity are not clearly visible / obvious.

That said, there is not a one of these that I am uncomfortable talking about, even publicly.

So my take is that the OP came looking for sympathy and validity. Whatever his condition is, he believes that if we were to know the condition we would not sympathize with him, we would find that condition to be a risk too great to take aboard, or at the least would be understanding of the captain not wanting to take on that risk.

He doesn't share the condition with us for the exact same reason he didn't share it with the captain, because he knew that there was a high risk it would cause a rejection and he wanted this trip (and he wanted our sympathy). It did cause a rejection and now he is irritated.

I can tell you that personally, if I had a condition that I had to go get a PHd to understand and treat, I would be upfront and VOLUNTEER that information before I ever set foot on an airplane to go crew for someone. It would be the very first thing that I mentioned, even before a long drawn out interview about my qualifications.

If it really did not cause any problems, and if I could clearly argue that point, and the skipper still rejected me, then I am ahead of the game instead of behind the eight ball.
With this excellent attitude you would be welcome crew, to me.
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