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Old 22-01-2016, 11:41   #151
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
No kidding! Here's my story: I had answered an advertisement for crew on a Hylas 54. The owner and I exchanged several emails and phone calls, but the logistics just didn't work out. A few months later he called me and said he had a crew member to drop out and wanted to know if I was available on short notice. He was sailing from North Carolina to St. Martin. I was available and agreed to fly out the next day to join the crew. When I arrived and asked when the rest of the crew would arrive, he said the other one had just dropped out, so it would just be the two of us. That wasn't what I had agreed to, but I thought it might be a good opportunity to see what double handing for 7-10 days would be like. Then I found out that he had a car but hadn't been willing to meet me at the airport and let me spend $80 plus tip on a taxi after I had scrambled to get to his boat. This was the second strike against him, but I figured I would sleep on it and see how I felt about it in the morning.

The next morning he was in town running some errands when I heard a knock on the side of the hull and someone calling out "Robert, are you there?" I said "I'm not Robert" and came up to see who it was. I was shocked to find five men with guns on the dock! Three were North Carolina marine patrol and the other two were FBI. It was a little awkward trying to explain to the FBI why I was on a boat ready to leave the country with a guy who I claimed to have never met until the previous night. After they questioned me and searched the boat for Robert and/or weapons, they told me that Robert was wanted for a $2,000,000 mortgage fraud. They took my statement and impounded the boat. I booked a flight, called a taxi, and flew home.

What did I get for the $720 out of my pocket?
1. One night on a boat at a dock in North Carolina
2. A great story to entertain my friends with
3. A renewed sense of the importance of heeding my gut feelings
4. A commitment to know more about any person I crew for or any crew that I take onboard my boat.
Very interesting story. And exactly the kind of reason it is hyperimportant to be very skeptical about just who it is you go offshore with. The sea attracts many. Some for good reasons… some not so much. I have met plenty of both.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:42   #152
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by IRG View Post
But having someone coming to the boat after an expensive journey and then changing my mind? No, that's just not on.
It should be - just cos someone is standing next to the boat doesn't mean you have no choice but to take them on as crew.

Depending very much on the situation and agreement made earlier, I'd refund or share costs, or just tell them to go home. But I sure as s**t reserve the right to refuse anyone I haven't met in person before, or for whatever other reason.
I'm trusting these people with my home and my life ... That takes a little more then "well, since you're here ...".
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:45   #153
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Hopefully not off topic, but it seems we are getting into ' which medical conditions' should or should not be declared!
Fwiw, the MCA require and Eng 1 medical cert.for the stcw95. I would suggest that if it good enough to work on a vessel requireing an Stcw95 then it's good enough to crew on a private vessel.

From the MCA site



Your ENG1 medical: What it covers and what happens
The ENG1 medical fitness certificate standards are based on these international guidelines:

Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers (STCW)
MLC
Internal Maritime Organization (IMO)/International Labour Organization (ILO) guidelines on medical examinations of seafarers
The most important conditions that can affect fitness are:

heart attack (coronary thrombosis)
problems with the heart rhythm
home forms of heart surgery
heart or artery disease
lung disease causing shortness of breath
diabetes treated with insulin (Type 1 or 2)
stroke
unexplained loss of consciousness
epilepsy
severe head injury or brain surgery
treatment for mental or nervous problems
alcohol or drug addiction problems
severe deafness or difficulty communicating by radio or telephone
eyesight or colour vision that does not meet standards
transplants: heart, kidney or other organs; joint replacement; limb prostheses
conditions that can cause sudden incapacity
conditions that put you at increased risk of illness while in charge of a vessel (remote from assistance)
conditions that limit mobility and stamina (under normal and emergency conditions)
medication with side effects that reduce performance or alertness – and can cause complications while in charge of a vessel
During your ENG1 medical you’ll be:

asked about your medical history by the doctor or a practice nurse
weighed and measured
asked to provide a urine sample
tested on your hearing and sight (for distance, colour and near vision)
given a physical examination (you will be asked to undress to your underclothes)
Your ENG1 medical results
At the end of the ENG1 examination, the AD will issue you with a certificate of fitness. This can certify you as:

fit without restrictions (unrestricted)
fit with restrictions (e.g. limiting your work to certain jobs or locations),
temporarily or permanently unfit
If you pass the ENG1, you’ll get your certificate usually on the day of the examination.

You won’t get your ENG1 certificate on the same day if the doctor has any concerns about your fitness, and needs to get additional medical information or seek advice from MCA chief medical adviser.

You’ll get a ‘temporarily unfit certificate’ if there’s likely to be a delay in the doctor’s final decision.




Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
Well, as the holder of a current (and multiple consecutive) ENG1's I can tell you that I am not very impressed by the comprehensiveness of the actual examination, WRT the criteria of just who I would be happy to take offshore… I still ask a lot of questions, and even then it is hard to know. "Gut" (experience and intuitive judgement) is a good, in fact invaluable, tool, in the end. I feel this skipper was unhappy about this crew, for non trivial reasons to him. Some of these reasons have been amply borne out to me already.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:49   #154
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I oppose the OP as I believe he should pay his own expenses in this case. Maybe since he is already in florida he can find a different boat.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:58   #155
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
I don't see a con here either - the skipper didn't get anything out of it.
Didn't lose much either, only $260, but for a con, that's a pretty poor result

As far as I can tell, something happened that made the skipper decide it wasn't a good fit.
Whatever that was, we'll probably never know.

If anything, this is a sad and expensive lesson: make sure both parties are very clear on what exactly is agreed on. Asking or expecting something isn't the same as agreeing on it - however reasonable your expectations may be.

Even if it's just a simple email with some bullet points, make sure everything is clear to both parties and agreed on before you start investing money and flying out to a boat / skipper.

Anyway - just my personal take on this, FWIW
I don't see a con either? If it where the con man, he lost $260 which I am not sure he was liable for.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:03   #156
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I am no lawyer but it seems to me that you had a valid contract. Backing out does not permit him to evade the obligation to at least cover your expenses. However, as he will most likely lie in court yor chances for recovery are minimal. Next time put everything in an E-mail so you are clear and have a record. I would also post this deadbeat's identity on the place you found the opening. Good luck on your next gig.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:06   #157
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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I am no lawyer but it seems to me that you had a valid contract. Backing out does not permit him to evade the obligation to at least cover your expenses. However, as he will most likely lie in court yor chances for recovery are minimal. Next time put everything in an E-mail so you are clear and have a record. I would also post this deadbeat's identity on the place you found the opening. Good luck on your next gig.
Obligation works both ways, mate. Deadbeat? Really? The OP did not disclose the very reason for he failure of the "contract" in the first place. Only when outed did he even acknowledge its general outlines. Both parties lost out. And alone with someone you don't trust on a boat is not a great place to be. Why do you give this individual the benefit of the doubt so strongly, based upon such scant evidence? The evidence I see is a striking willingness, from the get go, to be economical with the truth for their own purposes. No one obliged them to come on here and present such an initially slanted picture. No one here knows the details of the other side, as yet.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:10   #158
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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I am no lawyer
Then don't try and act like one

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Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
but it seems to me that you had a valid contract.
Whatever gave you that idea?
And how do you know what the agreement was, if there was one?

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as he will most likely lie in court
The OP didn't mention his health issue - not to the skipper, and not in this topic.
And from that, you conclude the skipper is dishonest?

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I am no lawyer
Clearly.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:46   #159
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Bobnlesley, wow, do I have permission to use that quote in the future?


" perhaps this is a further obfuscation and only now do we learn that the actual requirement was for us make a judgement call which favoured the OP."


That is a really well thought out piece of logic....I dig logic.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:48   #160
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Bobnlesley, wow, do I have permission to use that quote in the future?


" perhaps this is a further obfuscation and only now do we learn that the actual requirement was for us make a judgement call which favoured the OP."


That is a really well thought out piece of logic....I dig logic.
Like. Agree.
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Old 22-01-2016, 12:58   #161
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

With respect, that's a given and I was responding to the assumptions apparent from the original post and a number of follow-on posts.

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With respect, we still do not know the details of this history, and the OP did not fill us in with the beginnings of them, until prompted to do so by information he could not control…
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Old 22-01-2016, 13:01   #162
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I hear you. Count your blessings and cut your losses.

I "volunteered" as crew for a new friend who needed to move his swan 48 across the atlantic to the caribbean. We spent many hours together planning the trip, buying books and gear, etc.

I had told him in no uncertain terms that I do not drink, I do not smoke, and I am not interested in sailing on a boat with smoking and drinking (during the passage, obviously what they do ashore is none of my business). The owner totally agreed with me.

Only after we flew across the pond did the owner admit to me that the other 2 crew were heavy smokers. Only when we went to stock up food did I find out that they were all HEAVY drinkers. We brought more booze than food for the passage....much more. It turned out to be a 4000nm booze cruise, and I was the designated driver. The rest of the crew was drunk every single night, often too drunk to stand watch. As a result, I stood night watch every night, all night, and ended up seeing very little of the rest of the crew.

When I first learned of this rouse, we were in Almerimar Spain. I considered bailing. But I had taken 2 months off work...plus all the planning, new gear I had bought, studying, etc. I decided to grunt it out.

When we arrived in the Canaries to a terrible weather forecast, again I considered jumping ship. But the cost of flights would be crazy. And I'm not a quitter. I think the owner knew what I was thinking, since rather than the 3 days we had planned for fitting out in Las Palmas, we left after only 12 hours...barely enough time to check in with customs. I think the owner knew I, and possibly others in the crew were considering jumping ship. I was the only navigator, the only engineer/mechanic, and the only one with any serious sailing experience.

The trip was pretty bad, as you can imagine. I would come on watch to empty bottles rolling about the cockpit. Often I could not wake anyone when needed, because they were too drunk. There was little food prepared. The cockpit and below were constantly filled with smoke. It was a rough trip.

So in answer to the OP question, if you aren't paying or being paid, I don't think there is any financial responsibility. As for compatability...even the best of plans and intentions can fail...especially when someone lies...a lot.
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Old 22-01-2016, 13:21   #163
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Monte, a compulsive whistler would be shot out of the port cannon by 6 bells....he he he...
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Old 22-01-2016, 13:23   #164
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

So Cal, you just lost credibility with me....those lake havasu chics are not on your boat...I call you out on this misrepresentation of the truth...you can translate that into common speak...smile
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Old 22-01-2016, 13:24   #165
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Sounds like he met a girl who wanted to go sailing some time between your phone conversations and your arrival.
I'm positive he is still looking. Would it be sex discrimination if he allows a female onboard that uses an oxygen tank and not a male?

The yoga gal looking to go to central america looked like a strong prospect.
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