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Old 22-01-2016, 10:06   #136
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Sounds like he met a girl who wanted to go sailing some time between your phone conversations and your arrival.
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Old 22-01-2016, 10:10   #137
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by seasick View Post
Sounds like he met a girl who wanted to go sailing some time between your phone conversations and your arrival.
Projection much?
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Old 22-01-2016, 10:37   #138
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Otoh, we have had to do that to potential crew that showed up being smelly, drunk, drugged out, or just a very offensive person. Sometimes one's worse nightmare shows up that looked great on paper but horrible in reality. So maybe you are one of those persons?
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Old 22-01-2016, 10:52   #139
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

I've had good luck with Hank's site for deliveries on www.sailopo.com
It is a small membership fee...150?


He works with a lot of repeat delivery skippers and also owners who need crew.
He has gotten to know a lot of people who need crew.
He is also one more layer of knowledge about the owner before he posts the opening to his membership.
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Old 22-01-2016, 10:55   #140
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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I've had good luck with Hank's site for deliveries on www.sailopo.com
It is a small membership fee...150?


He works with a lot of repeat delivery skippers and also owners who need crew.
He has gotten to know a lot of people who need crew.
He is also one more layer of knowledge about the owner before he posts the opening to his membership.
Was this the service involved?
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Old 22-01-2016, 10:57   #141
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Here's my guess for the medical condition: HSV1. Otherwise known as Herpes Simplex 1, or cold sores.

If Fred showed up with a cold sore on his lip, and the captain recognized it for what it was, perhaps he freaked out.

HSV1 is highly contagious by contact with the sore. (I know mother's who inadvertently gave cold sores (oral herpes) to their babies by kissing them.) So unless Fred is going to be macking on the captain or sharing unwashed silverware or unwashed drink ware, it's not a sailing issue. HSV1 is not contagious when there is no sore present, and without a sore, it would take lab work to verify it even existed. And certainly wouldn't prevent you from going to work for 30 years.

Medical conditions are private and protected by law in the US under HIPAA. So, if this is "the" condition, I think the captain was wrong. A conversation about how to wash the dishes and the definition of personal space would have solved the problem.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:00   #142
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
Here's my guess for the medical condition: HSV1. Otherwise known as Herpes Simplex 1, or cold sores.

If Fred showed up with a cold sore on his lip, and the captain recognized it for what it was, perhaps he freaked out.

HSV1 is highly contagious by contact with the sore. (I know mother's who inadvertently gave cold sores (oral herpes) to their babies by kissing them.) So unless Fred is going to be macking on the captain or sharing unwashed silverware or unwashed drink ware, it's not a sailing issue. HSV1 is not contagious when there is no sore present, and without a sore, it would take lab work to verify it even existed. And certainly wouldn't prevent you from going to work for 30 years.

Medical conditions are private and protected by law in the US under HIPAA. So, if this is "the" condition, I think the captain was wrong. A conversation about how to wash the dishes and the definition of personal space would have solved the problem.
Well that was quite a leap.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:05   #143
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
A good internet/phone relationship does not automatically translate to face to face.. for a variety of reasons.
No kidding! Here's my story: I had answered an advertisement for crew on a Hylas 54. The owner and I exchanged several emails and phone calls, but the logistics just didn't work out. A few months later he called me and said he had a crew member to drop out and wanted to know if I was available on short notice. He was sailing from North Carolina to St. Martin. I was available and agreed to fly out the next day to join the crew. When I arrived and asked when the rest of the crew would arrive, he said the other one had just dropped out, so it would just be the two of us. That wasn't what I had agreed to, but I thought it might be a good opportunity to see what double handing for 7-10 days would be like. Then I found out that he had a car but hadn't been willing to meet me at the airport and let me spend $80 plus tip on a taxi after I had scrambled to get to his boat. This was the second strike against him, but I figured I would sleep on it and see how I felt about it in the morning.

The next morning he was in town running some errands when I heard a knock on the side of the hull and someone calling out "Robert, are you there?" I said "I'm not Robert" and came up to see who it was. I was shocked to find five men with guns on the dock! Three were North Carolina marine patrol and the other two were FBI. It was a little awkward trying to explain to the FBI why I was on a boat ready to leave the country with a guy who I claimed to have never met until the previous night. After they questioned me and searched the boat for Robert and/or weapons, they told me that Robert was wanted for a $2,000,000 mortgage fraud. They took my statement and impounded the boat. I booked a flight, called a taxi, and flew home.

What did I get for the $720 out of my pocket?
1. One night on a boat at a dock in North Carolina
2. A great story to entertain my friends with
3. A renewed sense of the importance of heeding my gut feelings
4. A commitment to know more about any person I crew for or any crew that I take onboard my boat.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:08   #144
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

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Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
Here's my guess for the medical condition...

...Medical conditions are private and protected by law in the US under HIPAA. So, if this is "the" condition, I think the captain was wrong. A conversation about how to wash the dishes and the definition of personal space would have solved the problem.
Why even go there?

Also HIPPA doesn't apply to someone talking about their own medical condition, so there's no application of that in this situation.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:19   #145
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor647 View Post
Here's my guess for the medical condition: HSV1. Otherwise known as Herpes Simplex 1, or cold sores.

If Fred showed up with a cold sore on his lip, and the captain recognized it for what it was, perhaps he freaked out.

HSV1 is highly contagious by contact with the sore. (I know mother's who inadvertently gave cold sores (oral herpes) to their babies by kissing them.) So unless Fred is going to be macking on the captain or sharing unwashed silverware or unwashed drink ware, it's not a sailing issue. HSV1 is not contagious when there is no sore present, and without a sore, it would take lab work to verify it even existed. And certainly wouldn't prevent you from going to work for 30 years.

Medical conditions are private and protected by law in the US under HIPAA. So, if this is "the" condition, I think the captain was wrong. A conversation about how to wash the dishes and the definition of personal space would have solved the problem.
No really...It was HIV and he had puss oozing out of all orifices. Good grief!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
No kidding! Here's my story: I had answered an advertisement for crew on a Hylas 54. The owner and I exchanged several emails and phone calls, but the logistics just didn't work out. A few months later he called me and said he had a crew member to drop out and wanted to know if I was available on short notice. He was sailing from North Carolina to St. Martin. I was available and agreed to fly out the next day to join the crew. When I arrived and asked when the rest of the crew would arrive, he said the other one had just dropped out, so it would just be the two of us. That wasn't what I had agreed to, but I thought it might be a good opportunity to see what double handing for 7-10 days would be like. Then I found out that he had a car but hadn't been willing to meet me at the airport and let me spend $80 plus tip on a taxi after I had scrambled to get to his boat. This was the second strike against him, but I figured I would sleep on it and see how I felt about it in the morning.

The next morning he was in town running some errands when I heard a knock on the side of the hull and someone calling out "Robert, are you there?" I said "I'm not Robert" and came up to see who it was. I was shocked to find five men with guns on the dock! Three were North Carolina marine patrol and the other two were FBI. It was a little awkward trying to explain to the FBI why I was on a boat ready to leave the country with a guy who I claimed to have never met until the previous night. After they questioned me and searched the boat for Robert and/or weapons, they told me that Robert was wanted for a $2,000,000 mortgage fraud. They took my statement and impounded the boat. I booked a flight, called a taxi, and flew home.

What did I get for the $720 out of my pocket?
1. One night on a boat at a dock in North Carolina
2. A great story to entertain my friends with
3. A renewed sense of the importance of heeding my gut feelings
4. A commitment to know more about any person I crew for or any crew that I take onboard my boat.
Excellent story and a great way of looking at it. I hope the sleazeball gets 20 years.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:20   #146
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

This does sound pretty bad. After multiple phone calls the due diligence should be done and the skipper has a moral obligation after you have spent money on travel etc. The only issue I can think of is he just "didn't like the look of you" after you turned up, it was his responsibility to satisfy himself that you could crew. At least he should have taken you on for the first leg of the voyage.

As a captain in International Rescue Group on one of our boats, all our crews are volunteer, we've had great, indifferent and terrible crew - the worst situations were usually around crew dynamics issues: one bad apple, whiner, disruptive influence etc. can ruin the entire cruise for everyone but you really don't know until you're underway. Yes, I've thrown people off the boat and by that point they have always expected it because of their own behaviour, and the rest of the crew grateful for the decision.

But having someone coming to the boat after an expensive journey and then changing my mind? No, that's just not on.

Ray


Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminFred View Post
Hello all-

I recently flew from Phoenix to West Palm to crew for a sail from Florida to USVI via the Bahamas that I saw on this website. We talked on the phone several times over three weeks, asked each other questions, I answered all questions honestly and completely. I checked his online presence and he is real and his business has customers who give him good reviews.

After I arrived, the skipper asked more questions, which again I answer honestly and completely. He decides he doesn't want me to crew for the trip. Fine, his prerogative. Bad decision, but his right to decide.

What are his obligations to me in this situation?

He "didn't have any more money" than the $260 he handed me that didn't cover the airplane change fees and that night’s hotel. But he is sailing to the Caribbean for three months.

BTW, I am an experienced sailor, have crewed on professional deliveries, numerous ASA sailing certifications, my TWIC card and have owned several sailboats and was doing this as a reality check for my liveaboard dreams.

Crew- consider your risks and expenses. If they can't pay your expenses they're trouble. I took four weeks off, updated my gear, bought SAR insurance, rented a personal ePIRB. Am easily out $750-1k, not counting my time.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:34   #147
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRG View Post
This does sound pretty bad. After multiple phone calls the due diligence should be done and the skipper has a moral obligation after you have spent money on travel etc. The only issue I can think of is he just "didn't like the look of you" after you turned up, it was his responsibility to satisfy himself that you could crew. At least he should have taken you on for the first leg of the voyage.

As a captain in International Rescue Group on one of our boats, all our crews are volunteer, we've had great, indifferent and terrible crew - the worst situations were usually around crew dynamics issues: one bad apple, whiner, disruptive influence etc. can ruin the entire cruise for everyone but you really don't know until you're underway. Yes, I've thrown people off the boat and by that point they have always expected it because of their own behaviour, and the rest of the crew grateful for the decision.

But having someone coming to the boat after an expensive journey and then changing my mind? No, that's just not on.

Ray
With respect, we still do not know the details of this history, and the OP did not fill us in with the beginnings of them, until prompted to do so by information he could not control…
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:37   #148
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Was there any exchange of pictures or skype chat? Sometimes a person's personal appearance can mess with your perceptions. Even the behavior of a person can be a no go for me.

Please don't take that the wrong way. I am not impuning your looks or your nature.

I have jack of all trades neighbor who is one tough looking dude. He weaves his beard ala' Mesopotamian preChrist style. It just creeps my wife out. But he is sweet guy an does his job well. But his looks are unsettling to say the least.
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:38   #149
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Hopefully not off topic, but it seems we are getting into ' which medical conditions' should or should not be declared!
Fwiw, the MCA require and Eng 1 medical cert.for the stcw95. I would suggest that if it good enough to work on a vessel requireing an Stcw95 then it's good enough to crew on a private vessel.

From the MCA site



Your ENG1 medical: What it covers and what happens
The ENG1 medical fitness certificate standards are based on these international guidelines:

Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers (STCW)
MLC
Internal Maritime Organization (IMO)/International Labour Organization (ILO) guidelines on medical examinations of seafarers
The most important conditions that can affect fitness are:

heart attack (coronary thrombosis)
problems with the heart rhythm
home forms of heart surgery
heart or artery disease
lung disease causing shortness of breath
diabetes treated with insulin (Type 1 or 2)
stroke
unexplained loss of consciousness
epilepsy
severe head injury or brain surgery
treatment for mental or nervous problems
alcohol or drug addiction problems
severe deafness or difficulty communicating by radio or telephone
eyesight or colour vision that does not meet standards
transplants: heart, kidney or other organs; joint replacement; limb prostheses
conditions that can cause sudden incapacity
conditions that put you at increased risk of illness while in charge of a vessel (remote from assistance)
conditions that limit mobility and stamina (under normal and emergency conditions)
medication with side effects that reduce performance or alertness – and can cause complications while in charge of a vessel
During your ENG1 medical you’ll be:

asked about your medical history by the doctor or a practice nurse
weighed and measured
asked to provide a urine sample
tested on your hearing and sight (for distance, colour and near vision)
given a physical examination (you will be asked to undress to your underclothes)
Your ENG1 medical results
At the end of the ENG1 examination, the AD will issue you with a certificate of fitness. This can certify you as:

fit without restrictions (unrestricted)
fit with restrictions (e.g. limiting your work to certain jobs or locations),
temporarily or permanently unfit
If you pass the ENG1, you’ll get your certificate usually on the day of the examination.

You won’t get your ENG1 certificate on the same day if the doctor has any concerns about your fitness, and needs to get additional medical information or seek advice from MCA chief medical adviser.

You’ll get a ‘temporarily unfit certificate’ if there’s likely to be a delay in the doctor’s final decision.




Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
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Old 22-01-2016, 11:41   #150
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Re: What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminFred View Post
Hello all-

I recently flew from Phoenix to West Palm to crew for a sail from Florida to USVI via the Bahamas that I saw on this website. We talked on the phone several times over three weeks, asked each other questions, I answered all questions honestly and completely. I checked his online presence and he is real and his business has customers who give him good reviews.

After I arrived, the skipper asked more questions, which again I answer honestly and completely. He decides he doesn't want me to crew for the trip. Fine, his prerogative. Bad decision, but his right to decide.

What are his obligations to me in this situation?

He "didn't have any more money" than the $260 he handed me that didn't cover the airplane change fees and that night’s hotel. But he is sailing to the Caribbean for three months.

BTW, I am an experienced sailor, have crewed on professional deliveries, numerous ASA sailing certifications, my TWIC card and have owned several sailboats and was doing this as a reality check for my liveaboard dreams.

Crew- consider your risks and expenses. If they can't pay your expenses they're trouble. I took four weeks off, updated my gear, bought SAR insurance, rented a personal ePIRB. Am easily out $750-1k, not counting my time.
Probably, legally your lucky to get the $260 without a contract in hand.
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