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Old 09-02-2017, 09:45   #61
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

8-th grade geometry will give you all you need to know and a lot of extras. If you understand the Pythagorean theorem about right triangles ( the square of the long side equals the sum of the squares of the short sides) and how similar triangles can help you figure and an unknown dimension by using 1 known dimension and a known similar triangle, you are 90% there
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Old 09-02-2017, 13:19   #62
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

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What exactly do you consider "Archaic" ???
Paper charts and pencils, Neil
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Originally Posted by Time2Go View Post
Just have to remember the sequence of what to do and when and what results go where.
My point exactly.

My wife sweated blood to get through the navigation section of RYA Ocean Yachtmaster and she hasn't used it once in 15,000 sea miles and if she ever had to she wouldn't be able to remember 'the sequence of what to do and when and what results go where.'

My eldest daughter recently took the same course and they are still teaching the same crap. The navigation stuff nearly made her give up. A good test of determination, but surely there are more useful ways of testing that?

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Do you rely on GPS as the only way to know where you are????
Yes, along with eyeballs and sensible precautions like maintaining an hourly log and having well thought out electronic back-ups (phones, tablets and laptops - I counted 8 on our last trip), any of which a child of six could operate safely. Oh and please don't start talking about lightning strikes, as Michael Faraday solved that one 181 years ago.

The truth is that the RYA, as well as many old salts and some new salts, enjoy the ritual and mystique of paper navigation or, heaven help us, celestial navigation, and are reluctant to relinquish the status it gives them. They forget that this elitism deters people like the OP and is manifestly unsafe.


Chris


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Old 09-02-2017, 13:31   #63
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Don't be intimidated. It's mostly basic arithmetic and really simple geometry. You could be a calculus whiz, and not be able to get a fix on your location; the magic isn't in the math, it's in the mechanics of navigation and that's the fun part anyway.
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Old 09-02-2017, 19:18   #64
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

[QUOTE=cuttlefisch;2321423]Hello, new friends!

I started the practical part for the RYA skipper course, and have since been landlocked due to illness in the family. While I have this time, I wish to study theory and prepare myself for the test and course, which I will take in 1 year. At that time I will joining a friend on his ketch and wish to be ready for the pacific.

All you need is grade 4 math. Addition Subtraction Multiplication Division Fractions and how to read a protractor, and a good mechanical pencil.
You don't need Trig, Algebra, Calculus or anything difficult.
The hardest formula you will see is "60 D st" for calculating how long it takes to get somewhere. It's just division and multiplication. You can grab that out of any Nav course. It's actually fun figuring out where you are using paper charts and Dead Reckoning and protractors and parallel rulers.Plus a few other clear plastic aides.
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Old 09-02-2017, 19:49   #65
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

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Just done RYA yachtmaster refresher. No cosines sines pythag. Just need to know when to add stuff up and when to take away. Biggest challenge was being in a classroom again which caused bit of brain freeze. Take your time, set it out and you will be fine. On the current papers when doing a 3 point fix there is no cocked hat, the bearings will be bang on, if not, you've got it wrong. Good luck
Yes, very little math required for traditional coastal piloting techniques...thats one reason for solving problems graphically on a chart...no Trig involved. You could of course use formulas for everything if you wanted, but not normally how its done.

Surprisingly, the "math" problems that give most students issues are simple speed/time/distance and fuel consumption word problems.
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Old 09-02-2017, 21:48   #66
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

I am doing a self study of ASA 105 at the moment. A solid grasp of arithmetic is required and a bit of geometry wouldn't hurt.
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Old 10-02-2017, 12:03   #67
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Great news! I ran into an old friend yesterday, and mentioned the sailing/navigation/math tutor thing. It turns out his Dad is a boatbuilder and his Mom taught Navigation, and they have a whole Library dedicated to it! Ha! Ha, I am super excited, my friend says she will probably give me free lessons. Thank you for all your help, I have a good baseline and things will roll much more seamlessly now. I already started studying vectors and refreshing my old algebra and Geometry. Thanks so much for all your help!!
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Old 10-02-2017, 13:30   #68
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pirate Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post

Paper charts and pencils, Neil

My point exactly.

My wife sweated blood to get through the navigation section of RYA Ocean Yachtmaster and she hasn't used it once in 15,000 sea miles and if she ever had to she wouldn't be able to remember 'the sequence of what to do and when and what results go where.'

My eldest daughter recently took the same course and they are still teaching the same crap. The navigation stuff nearly made her give up. A good test of determination, but surely there are more useful ways of testing that?


Yes, along with eyeballs and sensible precautions like maintaining an hourly log and having well thought out electronic back-ups (phones, tablets and laptops - I counted 8 on our last trip), any of which a child of six could operate safely. Oh and please don't start talking about lightning strikes, as Michael Faraday solved that one 181 years ago.

The truth is that the RYA, as well as many old salts and some new salts, enjoy the ritual and mystique of paper navigation or, heaven help us, celestial navigation, and are reluctant to relinquish the status it gives them. They forget that this elitism deters people like the OP and is manifestly unsafe.


Chris


There was a guy with your attitude who ended up having to abandon his newly purchased boat Nth of Bermuda.. hot shot racing skipper and all that.. could not charge his back ups.
Re the wife and daughter.. good on them for doing the courses.. but.. like just about everything.. don't use it.. you lose it.. maybe you are part to blame on that score..
As for the bullcrap status remark.. I don't regard myself as part of an elite.. just a guy who managed to DR 1000nm to Falmouth when like the hotshot racer I lost engine and all power.
But.. you go your own way.. its a free world..
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Old 10-02-2017, 18:07   #69
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Hi. I did the course, over internet last year. The maths is very basic. But you need to be orderly as you make calculations. Use plenty of paper so that it is all set out and you don't get lost or thrown as you leave a calculation to look up some data to then go back to the calculation. Work in pencil and with good erasure so as to keep it neat and clear.

The main maths is in height of tide calculations, and the the other area is the tidal flow direction and its speed and so then you can know how to offset for it to then sail a straight line to where you want to go.
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Old 10-02-2017, 19:59   #70
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post

Paper charts and pencils, Neil

My point exactly.

My wife sweated blood to get through the navigation section of RYA Ocean Yachtmaster and she hasn't used it once in 15,000 sea miles and if she ever had to she wouldn't be able to remember 'the sequence of what to do and when and what results go where.'

My eldest daughter recently took the same course and they are still teaching the same crap. The navigation stuff nearly made her give up. A good test of determination, but surely there are more useful ways of testing that?


Yes, along with eyeballs and sensible precautions like maintaining an hourly log and having well thought out electronic back-ups (phones, tablets and laptops - I counted 8 on our last trip), any of which a child of six could operate safely. Oh and please don't start talking about lightning strikes, as Michael Faraday solved that one 181 years ago.

The truth is that the RYA, as well as many old salts and some new salts, enjoy the ritual and mystique of paper navigation or, heaven help us, celestial navigation, and are reluctant to relinquish the status it gives them. They forget that this elitism deters people like the OP and is manifestly unsafe.


Chris


So if I understand you correctly you don't carry any paper charts at all ???
No pencils???
So how do you write in your log??? and why bother you got your track in
The plotter.
Don't keep any DR ???
Not going to argue about Celestrial but in my minds eye
Navigation comes down to two things
1. Knowing where you are ( I rely on GPS with DR back up)
2. Using that info to get safely to where you want to go
Sounds to me that you rely on your chart plotter which is all
fine and good for you.
But I like to have paper charts and the knowledge to use them.
8 devices is a lot of charging to keep up with.
If everything goes to crap I know I can get to where I'm going
with paper charts, either by DR or GPS fixes
Good for your wife and daughter on their RYA Ocean Yachtmaster
Not an easy accomplishment
Cheers
Neil
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Old 17-02-2017, 14:57   #71
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

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There was a guy with your attitude who ended up having to abandon his newly purchased boat Nth of Bermuda.. hot shot racing skipper and all that.. could not charge his back ups.
This is exactly what the RYA should be teaching - how to ensure you have adequate electronic back-ups, i.e. fully charged ones that have been used within living memory and are stored securely.


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I don't regard myself as part of an elite.. just a guy who managed to DR 1000nm to Falmouth when like the hotshot racer I lost engine and all power.[/SIZE][/FONT]
DR over 1000nm is quite a feat and no doubt you are justifiably proud, just like many sailors before you, but I bet you were very glad when Lizard Point hove into view, just as I was, forty years ago, when Old Head of Kinsale hove into view after 140nm DR from Land's End on a sloop that didn't have an engine, let alone new-fangled devices like RDF.

However, that was forty years ago and things have moved on since then. There is no need for the anxiety and the risk any more, if you have on board a fully-charged 50 android smart phone with OpenCPN and CM93 charts installed; then you can safely leave your paper charts mouldering under a bunk or, better still, acting as wallpaper on the walls of a nautically-themed pub, where they won't do any harm.

Chris

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Old 17-02-2017, 15:07   #72
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pirate Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
DR over 1000nm is quite a feat and no doubt you are justifiably proud, just like many sailors before you, but I bet you were very glad when Lizard Point hove into view, just as I was, forty years ago, when Old Head of Kinsale hove into view after 140nm DR from Land's End on a sloop that didn't have an engine, let alone new-fangled devices like RDF.

However, that was forty years ago and things have moved on since then. There is no need for the anxiety and the risk any more, if you have on board a fully-charged 50 android smart phone with OpenCPN and CM93 charts installed; then you can safely leave your paper charts mouldering under a bunk or, better still, acting as wallpaper on the walls of a nautically-themed pub, where they won't do any harm.

Chris

Actually I have a 10" Notebook with Nimble Navigator (CM93) installed however I always carry my Royal Navy Ships Boats Charts, 5211/12/13/14/15/16 and Table of Sunset and Sunrise bearings.. being a chicken **** kinda guy I like to play safe..
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Old 17-02-2017, 15:22   #73
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

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Actually I have a 10" Notebook with Nimble Navigator (CM93) installed however I always carry my Royal Navy Ships Boats Charts, 5211/12/13/14/15/16 and Table of Sunset and Sunrise bearings.. being a chicken **** kinda guy I like to play safe..
I doubt that you are a chicken, just prudent, but it pays to review your own counsel from time to time.

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Old 17-02-2017, 15:31   #74
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pirate Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

Regarding seeing Lands End after 1000nm.. I did not do that.. however after beginning to wonder if I was headed up the Irish Sea when I waved down a newly commissioned CG vessel and they confirmed Falmouth was 18nm ahead I was mightily relieved you can be sure.. also well pleased with the fresh bread, cheese and other things they gave me.. 47 days out of St Martin I was running low..
This was pre Nimble when I only had charts and a basic HH GPS with dead batteries 17yrs ago.. lol
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Old 17-02-2017, 15:58   #75
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Re: what math level do I need to complete a sailing/navigation course?

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Regarding seeing Lands End after 1000nm.. I did not do that.. however after beginning to wonder if I was headed up the Irish Sea when I waved down a newly commissioned CG vessel and they confirmed Falmouth was 18nm ahead I was mightily relieved you can be sure.. also well pleased with the fresh bread, cheese and other things they gave me.. 47 days out of St Martin I was running low..
This was pre Nimble when I only had charts and a basic HH GPS with dead batteries 17yrs ago.. lol
Quite an adventure and no doubt one you can remember it with greater clarity than much of what has happened in the intervening 17yrs, so perhaps having modern electronic navigation aids isn't all good.

FORTY SEVEN days out of St Martin! What were you sailing, a shipping container? It took us five weeks including a week each in Bermuda and the Azores. You weren't one of the brave souls that chose the direct route and got stuck in the horse latitudes were you?
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