"What makes the perfect boat woman...perfect"

[High Heels]

Thanks Robyn for sharing your experience.

I really hope our friend who we had sailed with before has not written me off, because I do really respect him so much, sail well with him in past experiences, and well, I really just like him...he is a really great guy and friend.

One thing too, upon reflection, that is not a gender issue, is just personality differences. I like to make decisions slowly if I have the luxury of time...this can be beneficial in some life experiences and in other it can be a detriment. Chris likes to make choices more quickly and likewise it can be a great outcome or not. What I strive for is balance.

So there are different styles of being in the world and while those differences can make a more well rounded cruising boat, it can simultaneously drive those aboard a bit crazy at times.

Let me state for the record here....I love Chris very much! We have been together for twenty years and have been through a lot in our lives. I respect him, his strength, his ability to live all the life out of life, and his extraordinary mental flexibility and resourcefulness. He has made 'our' dreams come true...I wanted to sail far and wide when I was twenty-two with my own boat and then I somehow let that dream go until Chris reacquainted me with my own dream and asked, Why Not??? There are many days he believes in my abilities more than I do...he is my Champion in a quiet and real way...Nothing that happened aboard our boat last season is not workable with discussion and communication...and the truth is I am growing into a stronger person for the experience, a person who I respect a whole lot more than the one that left the dock a year ago, and one that recognizes that my relationship with Chris had been 'easier' before we left because I wasn't as strong...but 'easier' does not mean 'better' - and we both realize this...and I am so looking forward to our marriage after another who knows how many years of cruising ;0)

[Auzzee]

G'day High Heels. That was a very thought provoking and pertinent article. I urge you to offer it up to Cruising World. While there is a good deal of representation for women sailors in that magazine, I feel your thoughts present an often disregarded view, in an original manner.

If you go to CW's website, the submission protocols and formats are easily accessible.

Best of luck and thanks again.

[High Heels]

Wow, Thanks Auzzee! While my post may have been thought provoking, I found your reference to men's precious parts a lot more entertaining... 'dangly parts' - Now, that an article could make!!!!

I didn't mean to hijack this thread because I found the International Name Game quite entertaining, learned that I would probably laugh a whole lot more if I lived in Australia, and well, am very grateful that I did not have to walk around in life with the name 'Richard Head'...

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by SmartMove

... We also have our disagreements, a memorable one was one of the first times anchoring -- we ended up backing up over the line to the dinghy wrapping it around the prop, ... Robyn

Well, we all know you were at the helm Robyn cuz no male skipper would ever do a dumb thing like that. And if we did we'd damn sure not share it at the club bar. Or with the world like now. Did it go like this:

Oh Honey...

WHAT DAMMIT?!!! Can't you see I'm busy with this feckin anchor????!!!! [Feckin Idiot!!!]

I heard that you horse's ass!!!

Why did you turn the engine off???????? I'm workin my butt off up here! What's so important?

I think the dinghy painter wrapped itself around the prop, Hon

HOLY_______!!!!!!!!!!

[SmartMove]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Well, we all know you were at the helm Robyn cuz no male skipper would ever do a dumb thing like that. And if we did we'd damn sure not share it at the club bar. Or with the world like now. Did it go like this:

Oh Honey...

WHAT DAMMIT?!!! Can't you see I'm busy with this feckin anchor????!!!! [Feckin Idiot!!!]

I heard that you horse's ass!!!

Why did you turn the engine off???????? I'm workin my butt off up here! What's so important?

I think the dinghy painter wrapped itself around the prop, Hon

HOLY_______!!!!!!!!!!

Well not entirely like that ... I was sitting at the windless (probably cursing to myself) he wanted to anchor really close to shore and wanted me to put out a lot of scope (about as much as it would take to get to the rocks on shore). It was when (after 45 minutes) I got him to try dropping the anchor where I thought it should be (and he was probably cursing to himself) that we backed down on the dinghy line. Good news is, we set the anchor!

We immediately went into team mode, I was dispatched into the water to review our options. The first thing was to cut the dinghy loose -- hubby tied it off. I spent the next 30 minutes trying to get the line off the prop while cursing the jet ski guys that were ripping around the boat. When I got the line off the prop, hubby says "I need a drink" -- I agreed. We had just poured our second drink when we heard a "knock-knock" -- it was the jet ski guys bringing back our dinghy that had floated away!

The two good things that resulted from this is that the prop, shaft and engine mounts were not damaged by this incident and we did not lose the dinghy. The "ah-ha" moment was when we realized that, at the point we were about to ripe each others throats out, that we could immediately over come that and work together for the better good.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by High Heels

While the rest of you are out finding your .......

.......It comes down to this - Trust, Respect, and more Respect for each other, the Ocean, the boat, and one's self...

Thank you, thank you, thank you...this is by far the best post I have ever seen for this topic. I am the OP (original poster). I have entered into a relationship with a person I see myself with sailing on the boat. She is everything I could have hoped for in personality and spirit of adventure. Your comments glue together the necessary pieces to make a working sailing relationship. I thank you for this.
I am more like you than your husband in that I sail conservatively. I'm sure too much so sometimes. New situations always keep me a little bit on edge. It takes mental discipline to keep a level head and not become impatient with my crew. The other thing I have learned is to ask for advice from someone I feel has sound experience if I need a second opinion on a decision. That is what I mean about being more conservative than gung-ho.
I don't think you nor I are pessimist but rather realist. Things are as they are and we need to respect the reality around us which also encompasses the crews ultimate safety.
Your other comment about men viewing women who co-skipper are putting the crew at risk, I have not run into. I have had crew that I felt were too inept to trust and always had to keep an eye on them. One example was a friend who when we were docking, decided to answer a call on his cell phone. Another I asked to fend off a cement pillar but was too afraid to push on it but did not relay that information to me. Sh!% happens. Once i know a persons limitations, I can deal easily with it and formulate a way to help them become a better crew member.
I also like that you stood up for yourself. Ingrid (my partner) is Austrian. If she has an opinion or has something to say...guaranteed, you're going to hear it. You're right that it comes down to respect. Treat your signifiicant other with less and they'll leave. Simple as that. Who would put up for any length of time being the second fiddle.
thanx, again...I will make sure Ingrid reads your posts...you're awesome.

[SmartMove]

High Heels, I get what you are saying. You are right, it is not always about gender -- I too have the personality side of it too. Different people just respond differently. And maybe, for Glenn, it wasn't that I was a women -- he was just use to being the white water rafting god that everyone turned to (including me), but now I was the one with the most experience (because it was the ocean). He had never been on the ocean, but thought river rules would apply. He really did not understand knots and that drove me totally insane -- but I kept that to myself!

I just want to say, don't discount yourself or let others. I'm not referring to Chris, he sounds like an awesome guy and I think he gets it. Sometimes (as women) we doubt ourselves (when we should not) and then believe others do, when in reality they do not. Maybe some day we will meet and I can tell you about freaking out about 10-12 foot waves when the two (less experienced) crew thought everything was just perfect!

Robyn

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by harmonysimone

As a lady, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I hear time and again that there is a dearth of women who actually enjoy sailing. I hope that over time that this myth is debunked. I think you all are onto something re: a woman having an adventurous spirit (I think it's true of cruising men as well). Other key character traits for either sex in my mind are 1) a sense of humor, and the ability to laugh at yourself/ not take yourself so damn serious, 2) perpetual and insatiable curiosity about the world and a deep love of learning, 3) a love of nature, and being outside in the elements, 4) the urge to test your own limits and learn about yourself in the process, 5) the desire to figure out what life and love can be like under a totally different set of circumstances and stressors, and 6) the ability to communicate with your partner and with the world. Like many on this thread I also think that it requires a certain chemistry (it's as much about the perfect man as about the perfect women). Some women would probably be game to cast off the lines if their husbands didn't become (excuse my French) ******** when they donned the captain's hat and patronize their wives when it comes to all things boat related (I've seen and heard about this plenty). I'm lucky in this respect. Encourage your lady to learn and explore on her own, encourage her to ask questions, acknowledge her contributions, unless **** is DIRE, take a couple seconds to calmly relay a message rather than expecting her to intuit your ever thought and/or respond quickly when obscure orders are being barked at her, figure out how her goals/dreams/aspirations do or do not jibe with the cruising life. Before looking for that perfect someone, I think it's always a good idea to look a yourself first (men and women alike).

Harmony
SV Serenity
Take to the sea

Hi Harmony
Welcome to CF .
You are spot on not only about your list of things, but that they are not gender specific characteristics.
And I think the "perfect" man will go a long way towards creating "perfection" in his SO.

PS I also agree Tack looks damn cute .

[Seaworthy Lass]

Hi High Heels
Hope some good discussion with Chris has resulted by now. They are issues that are really important to resolve. I think many women would feel as you do and your post may be an eye opener for lots of men.
The worst thing is to simmer in silence. Nip any issues in the bud immediately, maybe with a bit of humour to lighten it so it doesn't sound too confrontational (like your friend's comment that he considered Chris his skipper), as otherwise things eventually just erupt.

Sending hugs.

[carstenb]

High heels,

Wonderful couple of posts and I urge you also to send it to cruising world. Almost every time we sail into a harbour, we end up seeing one or more boats coming, the hubby at the helm, screaming orders at his poor mate who is up front trying desparately to get her lines ready. Finally when the docking has almost failed, she make a "death leap" across to the dock and gets the boat tied off. All to the accompany screams from the husband.

Truly unacceptable. A good helmsman(male or female) lays the boat right to the dock and the crew can easily step off and secure the boat. No screaming necessary.

The fault in the above scenario lies with the helmsman.

I noted earlier in this thread that we practice concenous captaincy. We agree on what to do, and if one of us is uncomfortable with that, we do something else. We do have one ironclad rule,

The person at the helm is skipper in an emergency. If things need to happen, like right now, for the safety of the boat or crew, the helmsman calls the shots.

Then we can discuss it afterwards if necessary.

My wife is an excellent sailor and I have no nervous moments with her at the helm or on watch alone. We have also run into "dock captains" who don't do what she says.

When that happens, I usually get the line and say " aye,aye skipper". This generally gets the idiot on the dock to realize, she is the skipper.

We have our own skillsets. Some things she is better than me at and likewise the other way around. If we're docking in really heavy wind, I usually do it. Not because I'm better, but because I have a bit more of a "devil may care" attitude, and sometimes you need that when the crosswinds are heavy.

Yes, sailing is a male dominated culture. I' really pleased to see that more and more of you ladies are stepping up and doing it.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by carstenb

High heels,

Yes, sailing is a male dominated culture. I' really pleased to see that more and more of you ladies are stepping up and doing it.

Second that, good to see folks fronting up and being honest. The ladies lead in this department i must say. We men tend to be more concerned about how we will look in the eyes of other men so are perhaps more inclined to gloss over the feelings and go straight to how good we were in the situation. To all the sailoresses, much kudos to you all.

Coops.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

......
The person at the helm is skipper in an emergency. If things need to happen, like right now, for the safety of the boat or crew, the helmsman calls the shots.

Then we can discuss it afterwards if necessary.
......

We do the same. I think when sailing two up as a team it is actually important to have one person nominated to be responsible for the boat at any one time, even when both are on deck. For us the helmsman at the time is this person. Means there is no lapse in concentration with looking out etc because you assume the other person is doing this and it leaves the other person free to relax a bit (reading or dozing or just daydreaming etc between trimming sails). We just alternate this task.

I think knowing who is "in charge" at any one time is actually essential for safety. That person is generally the best equipped to make snap decisions if things are going wrong and on board our boat each of us immediately leaps to the other person's command in that situation. Often there just isn't any time to discuss options when an emergency crops up. That still leaves the person not on watch free to chip in if they are uncomfortale about anything when rapid decisions are not needed, and their view should not be dismissed, but followed (without any resentment), regardless of whether or not it may lengthen the journey or your fun a little. This saves a hell of a lot of disputes or ill feeling and helps remove a lot of the fear and worry for both of you.

For "alternating skippering" to work well, both people on board need to be skilled. So I would encourage the partner with more skills to slowly hand over more responsibility to their SO, initially when conditions are light, and slowly stepping up as confidence builds. This also goes a long way to allaying the fear factor, one thing that often seems to put women off sailing, even though they may have been initially very willing to give it a go.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

......
Yes, sailing is a male dominated culture. I' really pleased to see that more and more of you ladies are stepping up and doing it.

Originally Posted by Coops

......
To all the sailoresses, much kudos to you all.
Coops.

Thanks lads. Some of us just LOVE it out here on the water

[carstenb]

Lassie,

This just seems so logical to me. I may better at docking (or braver) , but I step aside when it comes to meteorology and forecasting. I can do it, but she beats me hands down on accuracy (if she says wind and rain this afternoon, that is what happens).

For extended cruising, having one person as skipper and the other as a "fender bender" rarely works. Both need to be able to command the boat. We've never tried it, but if we ended up with someone onboard who did not recognize my wife as co-skipper, we would put them ashore at the earliest opportunity.

No discussion.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Lassie,
This just seems so logical to me. I may better at docking (or braver) , but I step aside when it comes to meteorology and forecasting. I can do it, but she beats me hands down on accuracy (if she says wind and rain this afternoon, that is what happens).

For extended cruising, having one person as skipper and the other as a "fender bender" rarely works. Both need to be able to command the boat. We've never tried it, but if we ended up with someone onboard who did not recognize my wife as co-skipper, we would put them ashore at the earliest opportunity.

No discussion.

Yes, skills are often not equal. That is one of the strengths of a team though . We often have set roles (eg when dropping anchor), but still try and alternate occasionally so that each of us knows what to do should an emergency occur.

This whole discussion raises an interesting issue. There are heaps of people on CF reporting they haven't managed to sail successfully with their SO. How many people here have actually employed "alternating skippering" and not sailed happily together? I bet it is a real minority. Any feedback from anyone?