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Old 23-07-2015, 09:58   #1
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What does this really mean?

What does this really mean?
"NOT FOR SALES IN US WATER TO US CITIZEN/RESIDENT."

I'm guessing there would be import taxes but what else? Would it be worth looking at boats with this label? We have dual citizenship (US / Brasil) would that make any difference? Is it possible to get it flagged somewhere else?

Just curious, thanks in advance!
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Old 23-07-2015, 10:17   #2
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Re: What does this really mean?

It means the owner probably has a tax liability they're trying to avoid. Or they think they can avoid a tax nexus if they sell off shore. Either way I'd be very wary.

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Old 23-07-2015, 10:26   #3
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Re: What does this really mean?

This is normal. It's usually an llc owned asset that cannot be sold while in us waters to us buyers else large tax penalties be incurred. There is nothing dangerous about the listing. All it means is that if you are a us buyer you would need to close the deal in an offshore location like the Bahamas, and hold the vessel in a cayman (or other country) llc.


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Old 23-07-2015, 10:35   #4
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Re: What does this really mean?

So if it's a good solid deal it would be worth looking at? Is it more expensive with a cayman registration? the word cayman = $ to me haha!
Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this.
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Old 23-07-2015, 10:51   #5
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Re: What does this really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenIssue View Post
What does this really mean?
"NOT FOR SALES IN US WATER TO US CITIZEN/RESIDENT."
English is their second language?
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Old 24-07-2015, 15:17   #6
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Re: What does this really mean?

None of the above advice is correct.

By U. S. Customs regulations, it is not legal to
"advertise for sale" in the US, any foreign flagged vessel on which
U. S. Customs import duties have not been paid.

This happens frequently in S. Florida. Typically, a yacht registered
in the Cayman Islands is in Florida under a cruising permit, and
is advertised for sale (but not in the U. S.) by yacht brokers.

In order to conclude a sale without paying the U. S. duty (and
Florida sales tax) the vessel must be removed from the U.S.

Nassau is a popular place to make the final deal.
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Old 25-07-2015, 10:18   #7
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Re: What does this really mean?

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Originally Posted by ex-12m-guy View Post
None of the above advice is correct.

By U. S. Customs regulations, it is not legal to
"advertise for sale" in the US, any foreign flagged vessel on which
U. S. Customs import duties have not been paid.

This happens frequently in S. Florida. Typically, a yacht registered
in the Cayman Islands is in Florida under a cruising permit, and
is advertised for sale (but not in the U. S.) by yacht brokers.

In order to conclude a sale without paying the U. S. duty (and
Florida sales tax) the vessel must be removed from the U.S.

Nassau is a popular place to make the final deal.
OK, that makes sense. But, say I buy the boat, I'd have to pay the duties to reg. it in the US or register it in the Caymans or some other location to avoid the taxes, then I'd have to get a cruising permit to come back into US waters correct?
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Old 07-08-2015, 22:41   #8
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Re: What does this really mean?

I'm no expert but yes I think you end up paying the taxes if you register it USA and sales tax on the price you buy it at, yes. There are so many good boats in the USA and its still a buyers' market--hope you don't really have to pick up a boat that someone else has been avoiding taxes on but yet is sitting in the USA and they're advertising here. Bad taste. What other sleazy things could they do?
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Old 07-08-2015, 22:54   #9
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Re: What does this really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
I hope you don't really have to pick up a boat that someone else has been avoiding taxes on but yet is sitting in the USA and they're advertising here. Bad taste. What other sleazy things could they do?
Doesn't have to be "sleazy". Might simply be non US cruisers who have decided to stop cruising and sell now they are in the U.S. Much better in that case to find a fellow foreigner rather than go through the hassle of importing the yacht.



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Old 08-08-2015, 00:00   #10
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Re: What does this really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenIssue View Post
What does this really mean?
"NOT FOR SALES IN US WATER TO US CITIZEN/RESIDENT."

I'm guessing there would be import taxes but what else? Would it be worth looking at boats with this label? We have dual citizenship (US / Brasil) would that make any difference? Is it possible to get it flagged somewhere else?

Just curious, thanks in advance!
From the archives of the Multihull Company....

As you are browsing through listings of potential catamarans to consider while you are online shopping, Web Shoppingyou may keep recognizing a familiar phrase for boats for sale that have you interested. Directly at the top of the listing you are looking at is a bolded “Not For Sale In US Waters To A US Resident”, but what does this really mean? As a US Citizen are you not able to buy the boat?

The language “Not For Sale In US Waters To A US Resident” must legally be added to listings for non-US Registered boats that are in US Waters under a cruising permit and placed for sale by the owner. As the current owner of the boat has not paid the US Import Duty on the boat, a sale cannot legally occur on the boat while she is in US Waters, and a broker cannot legally advertise the boat without making prominently clear that the boat is “Not For Sale In US Waters To A US Resident”.

Does this mean that a US Citizen cannot purchase the boat? No, not necessarily..

There are several ways a sale could occur on the boat you are looking at as a US Citizen. The first and preferred way would be for the seller of the boat to purchase a US Customs Entry Bond and pay the US Import Duty due on the boat. Exact rates of the US Import Duty would depend on where the boat was built and can range from .02% to 1.8% of the value of the boat.

The second way would method would be an “Offshore Closing” or a closing that occurs in the Bahamas or somewhere else outside of US Territory that is at least 12 nautical miles off the coast. An “Offshore Closing” transaction does complicate matters slightly as potential buyers for boats that have not been US Duty paid cannot board or view the boat while she is US Waters, so the transaction details must follow a strict protocol that abides by the laws of the United States. This will take the coordination and expertise of your broker for a transaction to be completed properly.

Now, the Florida Yacht Brokers Association is proposing a change to the US law to allow owners of used foreign flagged boats in US waters with a valid cruising license to offer them for sale to US residents while in US waters, without paying duty, but to date this change has not been made. If and when these changes are made, this article will be updated to reflect the updated laws.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:41   #11
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Re: What does this really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Doesn't have to be "sleazy". Might simply be non US cruisers who have decided to stop cruising and sell now they are in the U.S. Much better in that case to find a fellow foreigner rather than go through the hassle of importing the yacht.
You're right, doesn't "have" to be sleazy, but such ads "tend" to be someone skirting the rules: e.g. an American who's avoiding taxes all along. Lots of times a foreigner will be pretty up front about the fact that they're not in their home country and don't want to import the yacht to the USA. So that's an easy check for the OP. The broker will have info about country the vessel is flagged in and citizenship of owner. If it's an LLC in the islands, yeah, there we go...

PS -- I'm interested to hear of the many yachts owned by foreign nationals in Florida waters -- different story than the seemingly large number of yachts in other US waters owned by a LLC owned by an American and registered offshore. Different places in the USA, different "usual" situations.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:54   #12
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Re: What does this really mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen411 View Post
From the archives of the Multihull Company....

Now, the Florida Yacht Brokers Association is proposing a change to the US law to allow owners of used foreign flagged boats in US waters with a valid cruising license to offer them for sale to US residents while in US waters, without paying duty, but to date this change has not been made. If and when these changes are made, this article will be updated to reflect the updated laws.
That would be amazing if someone could purchase a foreign flagged vessel without paying duty just because the boat happened to be here with a cruising permit. Seems highly unlikely as it opens a door to a Pandora's box of other exceptions to paying duty.
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