Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2013, 05:02   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I'll bump this thread from hiva oa and you can double check my angsty opinions.

And in my defense, I've gotten everywhere I've left for.
and given birth! lol

just don't temp fate,as people who live in glass houses.............stones
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 07-07-2013, 06:06   #32
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

I haven't read all of the blog, but I can understand why the last series of posts were very reflective. Zen stuff not my cup of tea, but I can sympathise with the man in this situation - not easy to see your dreams disappear down the sh#tter - in slow motion.

From what I can tell he wasn't new to boats, nor totally ill prepared (but maybe he should have stuck with a Mono!) and I think a fair few mistakes made which did not help (and possibly that includes the Zen attitude?!) - but at the end of the day he had the wit and ability to get self out of his predicament alive. That might have been sooner or later than others (and a predicament of own making?), but that don't matter.............and not every sailor manages that.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:39   #33
Registered User
 
Capt Rottnest's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: FN QLD
Boat: Junk rig Schooner
Posts: 209
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

The guy's attitude is fine. In fact he seems to be well suited to the task. He probably would have brought the boat back but for his partner being totally unsuited, and he had no control over that. The whole thing was just unfortunate.

I wonder if the motion of the little cat was the culprit re partner's seasickness.
Shoulda' kept the mono, put a windvane on it.
__________________
Capt Rottnest is offline  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:23   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: OPB
Posts: 184
I read some of the blog, especially the end and the very beginning. I missed the part where he switched to a cat. I think this was the mistake. Some people don't like the motion of a cat, I think his wife was one.

For a zen guy, he sure seemed to miss out on the whole go with the flow aspect of zen. Even after he turned around, he kept fighting the wind and tide. Methinks if he had just gone with it and hit the coast wherever he hit the coast and then made a decision about where to go next (day sailing only) he could have kept the boat.

In the blog, there's this whole shakedown to French Polynesia that is discussed then sort of glossed over hard to tell if it was aborted or what. Very confusing.
__________________
I.Grind is offline  
Old 10-07-2013, 14:57   #35
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Today's 'Lectronic Latitude carries an interesting article on the loss of Zen II with, perhaps, a little more compassion than that shown in this thread by some. Here's a bit of it:


In happier times, Lady Zen and Zen display the banner of their eco-friendly voyage campaign.
2013 GD French

But only days after jumping off from Southern California and beginning their nearly 2,000-mile westward voyage, they were sobered by the difficulties of offshore sailing — especially in such a small boat. One of the cat's twin rudders became inoperable early on, but Zen did his best to jury rig it, while learning to control the boat with a single rudder. Eventually, the couple decided to head for Ensenada for repairs.

* * * * *

To read the entire piece, go to:

The Loss of Zen

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 08:40   #36
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post

(...) his partner being totally unsuited, and he had no control over that. (...)
Like what?

I thought in this age we elect our partners. I know there are countries and cultures still around (and going strong) where they are GIVEN one.

If your partner is not a sailing person, do not take them sailing. How come a proposed zen master (buhahaha) does not see this most basic fact of life?

The sense, the nonsense, and the zensense ;-))))

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 09:14   #37
Registered User
 
sharkbait2035's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: La Paz, Baja
Boat: Custom 60' Cat
Posts: 39
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post
The guy's attitude is fine. In fact he seems to be well suited to the task. He probably would have brought the boat back but for his partner being totally unsuited, and he had no control over that. The whole thing was just unfortunate.

I wonder if the motion of the little cat was the culprit re partner's seasickness.
Shoulda' kept the mono, put a windvane on it.
no point cat bashing here, the problem was not the boat, it was how it was sailed and inspected for departure - do rudders spontaneously fall apart, or on an old cheap cat is it something worthy of some time and reinforcement? At any point he could have given up fighting it and run with the wind and or current... wonder if I should suggest this cat in the cheap multis thread? just gotta find her!
__________________
http://searavensailing.com
sharkbait2035 is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 10:21   #38
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Yep. Nothing wrong with a boat being old. But the basics have to be in new condition (not 'like-new'). Standing rigging, steering, hull integrity, ballast (if present), etc. are sort of like essential to making it to the other side.

Really silly anyone labeling themselves as 'zen' associated can not see the bare facts of life.

Budget sailing, to be done in a safe and effective manner, is ALL about having the basics in good working order.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 10:36   #39
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

I'll be Rebel's Wife will be surprised to learn that he has given birth.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 10:45   #40
Registered User
 
Capt Rottnest's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: FN QLD
Boat: Junk rig Schooner
Posts: 209
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Like what?
..

b.
Like the reason he hit the button, was his missus's misery..
Otherwise he would have hung in there for the final 500nm.

Yeah, he made a bad choice boat wise, antithesis to my boat in the yard (huge solid transom hung rudder, heavy galv steel pintles).
That cat looked like a weekend cruiser to me.
__________________
Capt Rottnest is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 12:06   #41
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mangareva, French Polynesia
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 513
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

I can't help wondering if he would have made it had he just had a little bit of experience with sail trim. It's clear that he's struggling to hold a course but look at the shape of the sail in the picture. The halyard has FEET of slack in it, so the luff is a big baggy mess. That alone must have cost him 20 or 30-degrees of pointing ability, never mind the loss of speed. It sounds like he's really happy when he manages to top 5kts for a few minutes, but if that picture is his standard for sail trim then he could easily have managed another knot or two consistently with a bit of trim. At one point he wants the wind to go to the W so that he can make way NE?! I'd be hoping it would go NW, not W, and he should be able to make way NE even with it from the N! OK, he's got a broken rudder and he can't fix it for some reason but really?

Such a disappointment. I kind of like the guy! Sounds like he has a lot more patience than me!
__________________
DefinitelyMe is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 13:14   #42
Registered User
 
salticrak's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: palmwoods qld australia
Boat: wharram tiki 26
Posts: 739
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Reading this got me thinking of Ole Jimmy Wharram and his first adventures on a catamaran. Now Wharram as most of you know sailed the first cat across the Atlantic. He too had rudder problems on a few occasions. This all on a craft that was untested and in it's infancy.

I for one am glad Wharram never packed it in, or abandoned his boat. This Zen guy, I am glad he is alive.
__________________
salticrak is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 15:13   #43
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post
Like the reason he hit the button, was his missus's misery..
Otherwise he would have hung in there for the final 500nm.

Yeah, he made a bad choice boat wise, antithesis to my boat in the yard (huge solid transom hung rudder, heavy galv steel pintles).
That cat looked like a weekend cruiser to me.
I think the boat was a good choice. I think the bad choice was to go on a crossing with a partner who should have stayed ashore.

Yep on the rudders - there are many ways one can improve: either build new and possibly more meaty ones, or else redesign to get a more seaworthy solution.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 15:20   #44
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by salticrak View Post
Reading this got me thinking of Ole Jimmy Wharram and his first adventures on a catamaran. Now Wharram as most of you know sailed the first cat across the Atlantic. He too had rudder problems on a few occasions. (...)
Wharram, being a Brit, was a practical guy. Two of everything! Two hulls, two rudders ... and TWO GIRLS.

The other guy resolved to substitute the second girl with an EPIRB. It turned out a mistake.

;-))))
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 22-07-2013, 15:26   #45
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,087
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by salticrak View Post
Reading this got me thinking of Ole Jimmy Wharram and his first adventures on a catamaran. Now Wharram as most of you know sailed the first cat across the Atlantic. He too had rudder problems on a few occasions. This all on a craft that was untested and in it's infancy.

I for one am glad Wharram never packed it in, or abandoned his boat. This Zen guy, I am glad he is alive.
Im a wharram fan - but "sailed the first cat across the Atlantic". I am not so sure about that. First "modern" cat maybe?
__________________

__________________
Factor is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.