Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-07-2013, 16:21   #16
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

And now they're "accepting donations". That one really gets me. If there is one thing I hate on blogs it is donation links and advertisements.
__________________

__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 16:40   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

better to try and fail,than to not try at all....at lest the dude got beyond the armchair stage.......easy to criticise from the safety of a land based computer terminal.

lessons to be learnt...it is easy to dream,but turning dreams into reality requires money in this day and age,under funded projects require 50% luck and 50% fortitude.

i am lucky to have met many shoestring sailors in 30 years of crossing oceans and it takes a special type of realist to succeed,bombard who crossed the altantic in a zodiac theorised on his doctorate,that in most cases of people ending up in a liferaft,that they gave up and died after 3 days.......moral of the story.....nevva giv up ....it aint over till its over
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:01   #18
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
better to try and fail,than to not try at all....at lest the dude got beyond the armchair stage.......easy to criticise from the safety of a land based computer terminal.
It is easy to criticise from behind a computer terminal, but that doesn't mean its always wrong. I've grown to disregard the sentiment that just because someone can easily criticise or judge that they're wrong. Also, just because the pot called the kettle black doesn't mean he was wrong.

I understand that a lot of people are all about "going for it." Heck, we are too. But on some level, there must be responsibility and knowledge about what you're doing/attempting. You have to be methodical and measured. Its fine to dream, but let your head lead you to those dreams, not your heart. That is where the quote in my signature line comes from.

Hail Mary shots are for when you really need a hail Mary. Going cruising is something that I don't really ever consider a "hail Mary." We're going. But then we've been busting our asses eating rice and peanut butter for three years and every moment of our spare time goes into fixing up our old boat or getting out on the lake and sailing. We research, read, learn, work. This stuff isn't easy. And if you're not prepped for the realities of it all, you're just riding on luck. I've never been too comfortable with betting on luck.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:09   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Then why don't you tell us specifically what he did wrong?
__________________
SVNeko is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:11   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
It is easy to criticise from behind a computer terminal, but that doesn't mean its always wrong. I've grown to disregard the sentiment that just because someone can easily criticise or judge that they're wrong. Also, just because the pot called the kettle black doesn't mean he was wrong.

I understand that a lot of people are all about "going for it." Heck, we are too. But on some level, there must be responsibility and knowledge about what you're doing/attempting. You have to be methodical and measured. Its fine to dream, but let your head lead you to those dreams, not your heart. That is where the quote in my signature line comes from.

Hail Mary shots are for when you really need a hail Mary. Going cruising is something that I don't really ever consider a "hail Mary." We're going. But then we've been busting our asses eating rice and peanut butter for three years and every moment of our spare time goes into fixing up our old boat or getting out on the lake and sailing. We research, read, learn, work. This stuff isn't easy. And if you're not prepped for the realities of it all, you're just riding on luck. I've never been too comfortable with betting on luck.
some people never get beyond that stage............mostly it is fear of the unknown that stops them.....even having all the gadgets it still requires a belief in self and ones abilities to make the leap
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:14   #21
Registered User
 
Travelnik's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nanny State
Boat: 22' Westerly Nomad
Posts: 593
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

They are currently safe in Osaka right now.

Zen (the boat owner) wasn't inexperienced, but I think he was feeling pressured, and tried to keep a schedule. He listed several warnings/signs that he had when things started to go wrong.

When he first started to have problems, he should have turned around, but he seemed pressured to continue to Hawaii.

Then, he lost the auto pilot, a rudder, the engine, and the second rudder was about to go. His wife was sick, and going frantic/panicked/hysterical, and that all added to his pressures.

I hope the boat doesn't cause any harm to anyone out there. Who knows where it will end up?

I guess it shows that (contrary to a recent argument here on CF) you can't always sail a catamaran just by using the sails alone.
__________________
Dean - 22' Westerly Nomad - Travelnik
A 14-foot mini-cruiser is minimalist. A 19ft is comfortable, and anything much larger than a 25 borders on ostentatious.
Travelnik is online now  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:16   #22
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
some people never get beyond that stage............mostly it is fear of the unknown that stops them.....even having all the gadgets it still requires a belief in self and ones abilities to make the leap
That is where determination comes in. By my point is that you can't let determination override preparation. Likewise you can't let prep override determination. There has got to be a sane balance.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:18   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Then why don't you tell us specifically what he did wrong?
Are you kidding me?

Should I start with seamanship or equipment?
__________________
rebel heart is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:19   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Yes, that would do.
__________________
SVNeko is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:36   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
That is where determination comes in. By my point is that you can't let determination override preparation. Likewise you can't let prep override determination. There has got to be a sane balance.
from the blog what i can see is that he set out on a voyage with a crew that probably should never been considered as crew!,
but followed him non the less!,

the boat will probably end up somewhere in asia at a rate of 20miles a day drift non the less so the "zen" voyage is likely to be a success any way sans humans!.....that is zen for you.....to err is human! i'm sure the vessel will be enjoyed by many tired seabirds and other crustaecea on its 7000mile passage!

perhaps unwittingly this is the khARMA our failed mariner has created for other beings
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 17:39   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Are you kidding me?

Should I start with seamanship or equipment?
eric you need to read a bit of Mortissier then you will understand
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 18:15   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
eric you need to read a bit of Mortissier then you will understand
ps: you are in danger of becoming a bit of an "agony auntie" till you cross some oceans yourself,please update your blog from fiji once you have a few more miles under you belt,this guy has actually sailed further offshore than you have
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 18:22   #28
Registered User
 
sharkbait2035's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: La Paz, Baja
Boat: Custom 60' Cat
Posts: 39
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelnik View Post

I guess it shows that (contrary to a recent argument here on CF) you can't always sail a catamaran just by using the sails alone.
we can sail just fine with out having to even lock the helm, although I agree, not all the time, but you should have an emergency contingency in place if you lose a rudder, and a well designed and sailed cat should be able to hold course with one rudder.

another example of where he went wrong - HE HEADED INTO THE PACIFIC AT THE BEGINNING OF HURRICANE SEASON

With a named storm on the first day there was no indication that I could find that it was going to be a slow year as far as storms go...
Call me chicken, but I am timing my crossing to minimise the risk of running into a named storm at sea. He said he had faced 25 kts before, but 25kts in the SF Bay is a lot different with no swell backing it up.
__________________
http://searavensailing.com
sharkbait2035 is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 18:40   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: what a mess: zenamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkbait2035 View Post
a well designed and sailed cat should be able to hold course with one rudder.
Funny story - we did an overnight passage recently where the weather was a bit boisterous with steady 35kt winds and 8-10' short Caribbean waves. The boat was on autopilot the whole way and sailed perfectly. When we reached the narrow entrance to the bay we were going to anchor in, I switched off the AP and had no steering at all! The wheel just spun. Turns out a cable had jumped a sheave. I just used the AP to steer the boat to the anchorage.

But the point of this story is the boat performed just fine with a single rudder.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline  
Old 06-07-2013, 18:58   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post

ps: you are in danger of becoming a bit of an "agony auntie" till you cross some oceans yourself,please update your blog from fiji once you have a few more miles under you belt,this guy has actually sailed further offshore than you have
I'll bump this thread from hiva oa and you can double check my angsty opinions.

And in my defense, I've gotten everywhere I've left for.
__________________

__________________
rebel heart is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.