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Old 08-07-2011, 07:39   #61
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

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We're talking about an international transaction. Would you accept a check from another country in a foreign currency that you can't deposit in your bank?
Only if it's from Nigeria.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:48   #62
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

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Everything is negotiable and the broker is obligated to submit all offers! The last boat I sold the buyer negotiated the price BEFORE he traved cross country to see the boat. No deposit till he saw the boat. I was fine with that and we made a satisfactory deal.
At last, some common sense, well done Tingum, its people like you that we want to do business with!!
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:52   #63
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

Most brokers don't want to bother their clients with lowball offers. A lot of brokers would rather keep the listing than go for a low offer as it makes them look bad. Sometimes you can find out who the owner is and talk to them directly, they are usually binded to the broker for only six months at a time (but you must not make contact with the broker prior to talking to the owners). If you are making a lowball offer, the deposit check is a guarantee that that offer will actually be submitted to the owner. If they accept, you are entitled to a survey (which you must pay for), and a sea trial. If something breaks during the sea trial or the boat doesn't perform to your expectations, you can back out of the deal.
When we bought our boat, the broker never even cashed our deposit check until the deal was done. We had already paid the owner. Then he cashed it for his commission which is almost always 10%. But if your broker works for a brokerage firm, he will get 5% and the firm will get 5%. If you buy from a broker in Florida, he can provide you with a 90 day tax exempt sticker, provided you are not a Florida resident. This gives you three months to get the boat out of Florida without paying tax. He can also extend it to 180 days for a $425. fee. This exemption only applies to brokers licensed in Florida and not to private sales. This is a new rule so if you do buy from a broker in Florida be sure to insist that they provide you with the tax stickers. That is my two cents but I would also insist on being present for the survey so you can do your own self survey as a lot of these surveyors are obsessed with listing the yachts equipment, electronics etc. which does you no good. They are not going to test these systems out for you. Bring a bright flashlight, a small hammer, a screwdriver, and a camera and stick your head in every nook and cranny and remove every panel that you can and remember that every little problem that you see with the boat is actually a big problem that will cost you plenty of time and money to fix. Good luck! Phil
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:15   #64
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

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Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
.... That is my two cents but I would also insist on being present for the survey so you can do your own self survey as a lot of these surveyors are obsessed with listing the yachts equipment, electronics etc. which does you no good. They are not going to test these systems out for you. ...
Having everything listed by an independent third party is a good idea since the survey will provide the best inventory of what's on the boat for the sales contract. If when you go to take delivery later something is missing, then you've got something in writing that says it was there at survey/sea trials.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:10   #65
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

I just put the 10% down yesterday. And if the owner accepts, I will have the boat hauled out and survived.
She is an old boat with old electronics. And I know that the Loran C, the 12 channel VHF, have to be changed out with newer equipage. And a few other items need to be up dated also.
So I have the following:
Price of the boat.
haulout.
survive.
equipage up grades.
a dinghy (doesnt have one).
Other Unkown hidden costs.
Some states have the dreaded Sales Tax, up to 12% pending where you are at. Louisiana don't thankfully for boats.

So the bottom line is though the price of the boat is the big ticket line, you are going to have other expenses that will bring the overall price up to at least 10 to 20 percent higher than just the boat. So plan for it. Then you won't have sticker shock. Hopefully you won't. Ach!!!
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:20   #66
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

Yes and no is not required the day of the survey. a yes or no is required at the end of a survey period which could be over a 3 week time period. If on week 1 you finish up a survey, and you get a report back 3 days later, the rest of the time is left to make up your mind or do other research to see what repairs would cost etc.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:20   #67
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

A offer without showing the "color of your money" doesn't make a strong impression. Anyone, especially someone without any means to actually complete a transaction can make an offer, but an offer in earnest always gets the other parties ears up. When you make an offer in earnest (with money) the broker will go to work. The seller will either accept your offer or counter an offer back to you. You are now haggling. And haggling is what it's all about...in my oppinion.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:04   #68
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

There is a big difference between making an offer........and asking the broker if he thinks the seller would be prepared to lower the asking price and what that price would be!! How can you make an offer if you dont know if the seller is flexible?? My point since the start of this thread has been the following, would I be prepared to put down 10% just to find out if the seller would be flexible? No, absolutely not! However, once I knew whether the seller was flexible and I had an idea of what that figure was, would I be prepared to put down 10% (subject to survey) on an offer, yes I would! So, a BIG NO to 10% for a simple enquiry......but a yes if I got to the stage of wanting to make a solid bid to buy the boat!
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:29   #69
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

Personally, I wouldn't consider making an offer on any sailboat without personally seeing it and inspecting it myself, first...especially with you being overseas or a foreign country. Photos are deceptive, brokers and sellers can be dishonest, evasive or tell half truths, and surveyors can be inaccurate without you being present. From my experience it is the norm to put down 10% in the US and I have done it and I have also had it promptly refunded when the seller waffled. Good brokers can be flexible and work with you, its to their interest to work within your means, but in my opinion its quite awkward to do it
from abroad without inspecting it yourself, first... as it becomes nothing more than a guessing game. To me, boats are too personal...comparable to ordering a wife over the internet and having someone else date her for you without even knowing the person first.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:35   #70
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

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There is a big difference between making an offer........and asking the broker if he thinks the seller would be prepared to lower the asking price and what that price would be!!
I agree and that is exactly what happened when we (Dutch) bought Jedi in Florida in 2002. After this discussion with the broker we decided to put in that offer and wire the 10% into escrow. The purchase agreement was very balanced (much more in favor of the buyer than what you find in the EU !!)

We first spoke with the broker on a Thursday; we flew to Florida that weekend and had a survey with sea trial and haul-out that Monday. Then we flew back to Holland and had a week of talking price down, then another week of notarizing and faxing papers and then we were the owners. Next thing we did was wire some extra money into the broker's escrow and sign off some bills from people we hired to do some work on the boat. When they presented those signed off bills at the broker, he would write them a check (no checks in the EU) so we liked the system a lot.

But a crooked broker could abuse it. Check him/her out.

ciao!
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:48   #71
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

Well pablo, the bottom line is the decision is up to you. You should assume its always going to be negotiable. There is nothing here to prevent you from asking the broker for feedback on your offer, or trying to haggle before a PA, so I don't get the complaint. But, remember, neither the broker/client or the law or the market dictates whether they have to play that loose game with you. They make their decisions and again, it's up to you to play by their rules and whether you really want that boat.

Pablo: Do you think your client would accept a 40% off asking price and what they would negotiate?

Broker: Well, I cannot legally speak for what my client will and will not accept. I'm not a salesperson; I'm a broker. You can try and submit a PA as is or higher w/ 10% deposit and give him some breathing room to think about it. My client is a very busy professional and has been through quite a few bottom feeders lately, and only wants to respond to serious buyers. I cannot disturb him and must respect that.

Pablo: this is IMPOSSIBLE! What kind of business practice is this! I need to know NOW!

Broker: Oh look at the time! Sorry, I have another listing I need to show for another important client. Good luck on your boat searches in the area. And please don't let the screen door...
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:51   #72
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

...thats funny!...painfully true. I don't think the real issue is the 10% thing, thats just a necessary detail up the road, as long as you
know precisely/exactly what your getting into and with who you are dealing with... and taking the time to get to that point in person.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:59   #73
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

I have always found in US that a 10% deposit goes with the signed offer. (when using established broker with escrow type account). Usually the broker will tell me if the offer will be accepted. They usually know what the seller will accept.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:00   #74
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

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Remember a personal check (or cheque) can't be used by a foreigner buying in the USA. Unless they have a USA bank account, I spose....
I faxed a written out cheque, Canadian bank/account/funds. I went down for the survey & then wired the actual deposit to his escrow account & faxed him my revised offer. He told me that every boat he lists attracts a lot of inquiries, but most are a waste of time. Having had a small taste of auto sales many years ago, I can appreciate that one doesn't want to waste time with someone, only to find that they'll be back as soon as their lucky lottery ticket is drawn.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:03   #75
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Re: US Practise of Deposit With Boat Purchase

Erik, in the US this is called "earnest money" meaning, show me some money to prove you are earnest in making your offer, not just kicking tires. It is not restricted to boat sales, either.

If you can put 10% of your offer at risk, in someone else's hands for at least a few days, it indicates to them that you might actually be able to come up with the rest of the offer, and that you have some real interest in that particular boat, as opposed to making offers to twenty others at the same time.

These days, if you can imagine a game, someone is playing it. And yes, folks have had a broker go out of business and keep the deposit.

Like everything else this is open to negotiation. You can always reply that $US conversions are not convenient to you, that you are reluctant to send money overseas to an unknown party, that you'd prefer an escrow. Or, perhaps to send them a letter of credit or other bank confirmation that the funds ARE available to you for the purchase. (As opposed to the sale being subject to financing, which they may or may not want to hear.)

But the deposit IS quite normal. Some sellers will tell the broker "don't even call me without a deposit in the bank" because they don't want to be bothered with tire kickers. With others, it is a broker doing the requiring, or asking.

A smart broker will work with you, to your mutual satisfaction if possible.
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