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Old 18-10-2015, 10:55   #106
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
Just want to throw this out there. The Coast Guard does not have a zero tolerance policy towards weed. Any amounts up to an ounce they leave alone in international waters and wont bother doing anything to you. SOURCE - The boarding party told us exactly that before they swabbed us.
Just throwing this out there for the fourth time as no one seems to want to answer it.

Do you know whether they have the authority for swabbing for drugs or did they ask you for consent , Or did you give them reason to suspect , or did Bear Bear growl at them and piss them off

When I was a (back in the 90's ) cop we had zero tolerance towards weed too. We ignored it completely on the water unless it was clearly trafficable, and also if it was too early in the trip, as it would ruin our day by having to return to shore . The most serious mistake a boater could make on the water was to be rude to us.. Now that was about the only thing that would bring strife. Even to this day, water rules are ignored, as they are barely known by anyone.
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:01   #107
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

The US CG has always, since 1790, had the right to board vessels:

Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 | Sailfeed
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:05   #108
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by CarstenWL View Post
... is it normal 'to allow them' to board the boat with their heavy boots on? Could you ask them to board without shows or 'proper shoes'?

Thanks,

Carsten
No member of a uniform service may decide to remove any uniform element while on duty unless there is a safety purpose in doing so. It's called "being out of uniform" and while it's not a significant violation, it's certainly going to get your butt chewed. Furthermore, there's zero chance they would risk stubbing a toe on something just to keep a skid mark off your teak.

Anyway, no, they won't take their boots off, it's actually a violation of uniform regulations.
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:18   #109
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Just throwing this out there for the fourth time as no one seems to want to answer it.

Do you know whether they have the authority for swabbing for drugs or did they ask you for consent Or did you give them reason to suspect .....
Please read this 2 part article:

http://www.sailfeed.com/2012/10/coas...ghts-part-1/ed

They have the "authority" to board any US vessels anywhere at any time, and any vessel in US waters for any reason at any time.

And they can do for something as simple as a safety check.

And so can the cops. I was pulled over by the PA state cops in 1982 along with everyone in a long line, so that they could check for safety issues and if we had a valid license, registration, and proof of insurance. And I'm sure if they smelled booze on my breath it would not have been nice.

Likewise when they came to rescue me 3 months ago, if I'd been drinking it would not have been nice, and in Maine I could have also lost my auto driver's license.
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:23   #110
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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What right does a foreign flagged pleasure boat have to refuse the Uscg from boarding? What if sailing outside 3 or 12 mile limit?
They have whatever rights their armaments give them when in international waters. The navies and coast guards of nations have long practiced arbitrary boarding in International waters, and aren't going to stop doing it. There are no laws that protect individual rights in international waters, and no jurisdiction with the authority to enforce them if there were.

When you are in international waters, the rights you have are conferred by the flag you carry and the treaty that that flag nation has with the flag nation of the vessel with whom you are interacting. That's the sum total of the applicable law. Generally this means that treaty allies treat foreign flagged vessels with respect, enemies with deference, neutrals with compunction, and non-flagged vessels with contempt.

By the way, about 4% of _commercial shipping_ happens on non-flagged vessels, for whom there is no prevailing law in international waters.

Keep in mind however that if you are a U.S. flagged vessel, everything you do is controlled by U.S. Law. The idea that you can do whatever you want with compunction is no longer true; any violation of federal law you commit anywhere in the world on a U.S. flagged vessel is subject to U.S. law. Same applies to U.S. citizens anywhere in the world. This means that you can do something legal in the country you're in, and then be prosecuted for violating federal law in the U.S. This expansion of jurisdiction is very recent, but has survived all legal challenges in tact, because the only cases they've pushed so far involve sex trafficking and narcotics.

So in sum: In international water, the other boat can do whatever they want. You, however, are constrained by federal law.

Citizens of countries other than the U.S. of course vary by their own laws, but generally the same rules apply in anglophone and francophone countries; the U.S. was quite late in extending its jurisdiction outside its territorial waters.
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:25   #111
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Just throwing this out there for the fourth time as no one seems to want to answer it.

Do you know whether they have the authority for swabbing for drugs or did they ask you for consent , Or did you give them reason to suspect , or did Bear Bear growl at them and piss them off ...
Yes, they have the power to swab. This is no different than flying into the US. The courts have ruled many times that the everything that is brought into the US can be searched without warrant. Boats are no different nor are RVs. Go read what happens to autos and RVs going into/out of the US to Mexico or Canada. All three governments seem to be rather intrusive.

Heck, I got swabbed going to the airport to pick up family at at the gate. To get to the gate, I had to show a copy of the ticket of the person I was picking up, produce ID to prove I am who I am, twice, go through the cancer machine, aka X Ray, get patted down in spite of the X-Ray and then I got swabbed to see if I had handled explosives. The %^&*() my mother had to go through to pick up at the gate was worse.

One day there will be a boarding of a US boat, which is used as someone's home most or all of the time, in circumstances where the boat could not be arriving from overseas, where something was found by a search and someone charged and convicted because of said search. The case will go to the US Supreme Court at which point the law might change. Or not.

Later,
Dan
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:29   #112
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

I thought to Coast Guard had an unqualified right to conduct safety inspections and verify documentation, which entitles them to board your vessel.

Can anyone cite a case where a court held otherwise?
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:38   #113
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Did you ever watch that wonderful show with your President Jed Bartlett? He questioned if the drug cartels have 100 times the budget than the DEA has, then why are we doing this? His chief of staff responded, 'because you want a second term Mr President'
One of our better leaders. Much better than that guy who came after him.
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Old 18-10-2015, 11:59   #114
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

and then they could shake down a cruising ship like carnival and shut it down but they dont...why are they immune???never heard of them getting pulled over....always someone has drugs for themselves ...i dont do any drugs but like to have a couple beers or so if not on watch ...if i own the boat and not driving it can i get in trouble...am the captain still??? and whats the bac limit on water anyway to the feds??? would you go to federal court for bwi if out in international water
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Old 18-10-2015, 12:06   #115
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by zedpassway View Post
Please read this 2 part article:

Edgartown Race Weekend Announcement | Sailfeed

They have the "authority" to board any US vessels anywhere at any time, and any vessel in US waters for any reason at any time.

And they can do for something as simple as a safety check.

And so can the cops. I was pulled over by the PA state cops in 1982 along with everyone in a long line, so that they could check for safety issues and if we had a valid license, registration, and proof of insurance. And I'm sure if they smelled booze on my breath it would not have been nice.

Likewise when they came to rescue me 3 months ago, if I'd been drinking it would not have been nice, and in Maine I could have also lost my auto driver's license.
YES YES YES, they have authority to board.. Ok Got it..

But what's with the authority to SWAB test? To drug test? Can they take DNA samples as well? Can they fingerprint and photograph you?

And you read this link above I'm really not interested in a boat carnival in April.. thanks but no thanks.
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Old 18-10-2015, 12:09   #116
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

and whats with meeting some at the gate at the airport ....its not the 80s
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Old 18-10-2015, 12:10   #117
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by dannc View Post
Yes, they have the power to swab. This is no different than flying into the US. The courts have ruled many times that the everything that is brought into the US can be searched without warrant. Boats are no different nor are RVs. Go read what happens to autos and RVs going into/out of the US to Mexico or Canada. All three governments seem to be rather intrusive.

Heck, I got swabbed going to the airport to pick up family at at the gate. To get to the gate, I had to show a copy of the ticket of the person I was picking up, produce ID to prove I am who I am, twice, go through the cancer machine, aka X Ray, get patted down in spite of the X-Ray and then I got swabbed to see if I had handled explosives. The %^&*() my mother had to go through to pick up at the gate was worse.

One day there will be a boarding of a US boat, which is used as someone's home most or all of the time, in circumstances where the boat could not be arriving from overseas, where something was found by a search and someone charged and convicted because of said search. The case will go to the US Supreme Court at which point the law might change. Or not.

Later,
Dan
Thanks Dan for having a go and respond to the question.

Can we stick to a boat in international waters though. Can they also take DNA samples, fingerprint and photograph at random as well?

Do you know what the legal authority is to take drug swabs at random?
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Old 18-10-2015, 12:26   #118
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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One of our better leaders. Much better than that guy who came after him.
warning.

I had an argument once with a an American tourist I was chatting with that my favourite president was Josiah Bartlet and politics haven't been the same since he left. "son, are we talking about the same country because I know all my presidents off by heart and we have never had a Josiah Bartlet".

I said sure you have, he was a Democrat and Governor of New Hamshire prior to being President. The more I waffled off facts about President Bartlet the more uncomfortable he became and oddly enough red in the face. He knew who the New Hamshire Governor was from 95 - 99 when I said Barlett was Governor. I reeled off Bartlett's staff members and family members and he equalled every thing I said with his own factual knowledge. He sure knew a lot about who was in politics in his country. But he got so irritated with me that he called over his wife, "Nancy, come over hear and tell this young Australian (I was about 45 then) chap that we have never had a Josiah Bartlet as President". She looked at me and smiled and said, my husband doesn't watch a lot of television if it's not baseball or the news. She said she would tell him when there back on the boat.
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Old 18-10-2015, 13:06   #119
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

Yes, Rustic, the USCG does have the authority to swab, but they probably wouldn't as they usually don't have the equipment or the technician to process the sample on the small cutters they use, much less the large cutters... So they probably would bring you in to port, based on what they find in hard evidence, and your conduct during questioning...


As for wearing their boots during boarding, I would not advise your asking the boarding crew to remove their Boots, as it would delay them if they were called back to the Cutter.. If you are concerned about damaging your varnished decks, you might have some disposable covers for their boots... that way you have killed two birds with one stone... I hope this helps others this helps others who have the same concerns...
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Old 18-10-2015, 13:12   #120
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

Just for clarity:
The USCG does NOT have the Right or Authority to board foreign flagged vessels in International waters!

They just do it....and nobody challenges them!
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