U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Unforutnately this is going to start to turn into a pro gun vs anti gun thread and how some people are "unreasonably" afraid of pirates, that others believe dont exist

Not to mention that many contributors apparently fear the true intentions of the USCG simply carrying out their assigned tasks it seems or is it the loss of some obscure 4th amendment clause that they fear. Extreme paranoia is catching and apparently transmittable by Internet!

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I'm just wondering out loud why someone whose automatic response to being approached by strangers night or day is to display a lethal weapon

Is that better?

I'm not anti gun, I am anti obnoxious behavior. To display a lethal weapon to a stranger is by definition obnoxious. That someone would engage in offensive behavior and then be surprised when someone else finds said behavior offensive is beyond me.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Is that better?

No not really. Nowhere was it said by him that he "displayed", showed, brandished, waved, made known, or advertised that he had a gun before he was boarded. And having a gun nearby or in arms reach when being in known pirate waters and being approached by a blacked out vessel at night sounds anything but unreasonable or obnoxious to me.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Robin3

Not to mention that many contributors apparently fear the true intentions of the USCG simply carrying out their assigned tasks it seems or is it the loss of some obscure 4th amendment clause that they fear. Extreme paranoia is catching and apparently transmittable by Internet!

Robin,
Have you read this discussion completely? The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution is "obscure?" This is a remarkable statement but perhaps is indicative of many who have not read nor understood the principles from which our country(USA) was founded. The Fourth Amerndment is part of the Amendments which are properly referred to as The Bill of Rights. I suggest revisiting this important part of US History. Good luck and good sailing.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Delancey

"And FYI we did have the M1A ready and they saw it."

Explain to me how they could have seen it if it was not displayed? That just does not make any sense. Do the Coasties have X-ray vision I never heard about?

Even if they saw it before the boarding party showed up, which is still not completely known by us if the boarding party saw it or the cutter did. How would being armed in pirate waters, in the pitch black, when being approached by a blacked out ship be unreasonable or obnoxious?

........-gee there is a boat with no lights following us in the middle of nowhere in known pirate waters. Do you want to get the gun out just in case?

-no leave it alone, on the off chance it is not a pirate in pirate waters I don't want to seem unreasonable towards the mysterious boats intentions that has been tailing us with no lights at all........

Yup that's what I would do.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Robin,
Have you read this discussion completely? The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution is "obscure?" This is a remarkable statement but perhaps is indicative of many who have not read nor understood the principles from which our country(USA) was founded. The Fourth Amerndment is part of the Amendments which are properly referred to as The Bill of Rights. I suggest revisiting this important part of US History. Good luck and good sailing.

ERM, The USA is not 'my' country albeit I am a permanent resident here and where I come from we have history that is beyond/before such relatively recent shenanigans

I have no fear of the USCG and whilst a middle of night boarding would be an irritation It would not cause me to start questioning if the Government were getting out of control and I need do something to stop it.

I have no fear of guns either except when pointed at me but I do question the sense in the easy access to them that allows them to fall into the wrong hands, like 3 year olds or nutters.

That it, this thread will undoubtedly close soon anyways, so I'm outa here. Enjoy yourselves peacefully...

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Yup that's what I would do.

Um, okay. You would display a weapon to strangers but you don't think it's offensive. Does this mean you also would be surprised if someone else found this behavior offensive?

Would you similarly not be able to make the correlation between your behavior and why it is you are detained for four hours and then publicly express disdain for some Coasties doing their job?

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Robin3

ERM, The USA is not 'my' country albeit I am a permanent resident here and where I come from we have history that is beyond/before such relatively recent shenanigans

I have no fear of the USCG and whilst a middle of night boarding would be an irritation It would not cause me to start questioning if the Government were getting out of control and I need do something to stop it.

I have no fear of guns either except when pointed at me but I do question the sense in the easy access to them that allows them to fall into the wrong hands, like 3 year olds or nutters.

That it, this thread will undoubtedly close soon anyways, so I'm outa here. Enjoy yourselves peacefully...

Robin,
Before you leave our distinguished company of contributors in this thread, may I offer an olive branch to you for your future journeys. Captain Rognvald--a Pacifist in the making.

https://youtu.be/0v1Lj5E_nVE

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Simonsays

actualy, that is wrong for most countries that you would want to compare yourself to.

Interesting.

To clarify, I am referring to major cities not smaller cities and towns here in the USA.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Robin,
Before you leave our distinguished company of contributors in this thread, may I offer an olive branch to you for your future journeys. Captain Rognvald--a Pacifist in the making.

https://youtu.be/0v1Lj5E_nVE

Why thank you kind sir

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

How would being armed in pirate waters, in the pitch black, when being approached by a blacked out ship be unreasonable or obnoxious?

Let´s make sure we not miss the forest by focussing in one tree.

First of all, when people talk about "pirates" in that part of the world (specificaly waters East of the Miskitos cays) they refer to "illegal" lobster fishermen from Honduras and drug smugglers who work for FARC landing drugs form Colombia into Nicaragua . Their business is not about taking a cruiser´s property, it is about illegal lobster and drugs. Thos eguys are doing illegal stuff and they will not like cruisers having a look at them.

Now that the well organized Colombian navy cannot patrol those waters because International Court of Justice gave those waters to Nicaragua, there is an easy solution. Just sail East of San Andres (the Colombian island spelt with only one "a", unlike the St Andreas Fault in California).

[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Interesting.

To clarify, I am referring to major cities not smaller cities and towns here in the USA.

i was not the least worried, walking around Tokyo at night alone, getting lost. found my way back to the harbor before sunrise with the help of some very fine people who showed me around the next days.
i'd be worried about Munich though. they talk strange down there and look like from a different century and the sidewalks are beeing stuffed away at 10pm.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Under the Rule of Law, there are no "Law Makers", and there isn't even supposed to be a "Government". The Rule of Law is literal (the words do mean what they say), and everybody is supposed to be 'governed' by the Law - "If the Law makes the King, then the King is subject to the Law" (which is where British 'subject' comes from - it has nothing to do with being a forelock tugging serf).

The Rule of Law denies power, because nobody can be trusted with power, which is the whole point of the following:
"In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." Thomas Jefferson

This is why we have Legislatures (e.g. the Houses of Parliament in the UK, America's Congress, Senate, and Presidency), and representatives 'Legislate'.

Under the Rule of Law, all legislation must comply with the Law to be 'lawful'. otherwise it is illegal, and void. Nobody is allowed to make "Law", because making Law is the exercising of power, and nobody has any.

Part of this includes the fact that all legislation must be thoroughly debated in the Legislative Body, so that the INTENT of the legislators can be determined by the Courts. If there has been insufficient, or totally absent debate, that legislation is automatically illegal, and void (so no sneaking in legislation in the dead of night).

Otherwise you get the Courts "making it up as they go along" and "thinking that they make Law" which is part of the definition of a lawless State (which is the assumption of the proven lie and despotic tyranny of "Divine Right", where "The Law is what 'we' say it is").

As an aside, this is no different to the self proclaimed Satanist Aleister Crowley's "Do what thou wilt be the whole of the law", and equally disastrous.

In many ways, the approach taken by our employees (it is the Citizens that pay the wages), is placing those such as the Police in impossible situations, where they are compelled to enforce illegal and void legislation to carry out what are basically illegal tax raising measures, which destroys the respect the citizens have for the people they pay to attend full time, to the duties and responsibilities that are also those of every citizen (principles involved in the Hue and Cry for example), not helped by things such as illegal breaching of the Castle Doctrine with illegal entry onto property - which is illegal even with a warrant, believe it or not. A Policeman breaking down a door is an act of war, and he can be lawfully killed (there is plenty of case precedent). Recently in Britain, there was a Policeman dressed in camouflage gear hiding in someone's garden, and he attacked the householder when challenged, and was killed. The householder was RIGHTLY found not guilty of murder in Court.

Under the Common Law, and as confirmed by the 1688 Bill of Rights (which was also granted to America circa 1700 AD, in gratitude for assistance given with the Glorious Revolution of 1688), it is illegal to inflict fines and forfeitures prior to conviction. On the spot fines, wheel clamping etc., are BLATANTLY illegal, yet Policemen are sent out every day with quotas to fill, all for illegal revenue raising.

This will end up with the Police ultimately being unable to function, because the function of the Police depends 100% on the co-operation of their employers, and working with their employers.

The rot has been introduced via Senior Officers that are required to know MUCH better, as a function of their jobs. Which is why the following is in Magna Carta (this is a very old problem, that never ends well):

"We will appoint as justices, constables, sheriffs, or bailiffs only such as know the law of the realm and mean to observe it well."

We approach interesting times, that as history all too clearly demonstrates, will involve massive amounts of payback, plus substantial interest, for those that have taken liberties with inalienable Rights, Liberties, and Freedoms.

Those employed by the Citizen, had better start minding their P's and Q's, start behaving responsibly and carrying out their duties (if they aren't already - you know who you are), yesterday if not sooner.

Because there is a very real "Or Else", that nobody is going to like experiencing.

All lawless States inevitably fail, that failure is usually catastrophic, and it is usually accompanied by great bloodshed (primarily of those that failed in their duties and supported the lawless State).

What

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Um, okay. You would display a weapon to strangers but you don't think it's offensive. Does this mean you also would be surprised if someone else found this behavior offensive?

Would you similarly not be able to make the correlation between your behavior and why it is you are detained for four hours and then publicly express disdain for some Coasties doing their job?

Delancey, your just being rediculously picky. The OP did nothing wrong at all from what he's told us. Nothing. And I'm an anti gunner. He's clearly articulated circumstances that warranged extreem caution and he pulled it off safely. You simply cannot have any further expectations of him.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Except when your Flag State has a ship boarding agreement.

Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) Ship Boarding Agreements
105 Participants, Including: Afghanistan, Albania, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, .......
(snip)

Thanks, Gord..... Now I won't have to ring up the Austrian Ambassador.

For everybody else: It's been a good read & thanks to all who participated. But now I'm out-a-here.


Fair winds; following seas.
James