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Old 21-10-2015, 09:45   #196
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Except when your Flag State has a ship boarding agreement.

Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) Ship Boarding Agreements
105 Participants, Including: Afghanistan, Albania, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Estonia, Fiji, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Holy See, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malaysia, Malta, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Russia, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Viet Nam, & Yemen.

Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) | Treaties & Regimes | NTI
There are some surprises in that list, particularly that Russia and the United States have agreed to board each other's flagships.

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Old 21-10-2015, 10:02   #197
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I dunno.

Did it ever occur to the OP, who complains about how protracted his boarding experience was, that the fact that he started it off by brandishing his firearms may have been a contributing factor to the level of scrutiny he felt he endured?

And that perhaps if he hadn't been so quick to display them that the Coast Guard might have been a lot quicker to let him go about his business?

Displaying guns isn't exactly a friendly way to greet anyone. What do you expect is going to happen when that someone is the USCG?
Delancey,
If you were in international waters known for piracy and a boat approached at 4:30 in the morning, in the dark, and shined a light into your cockpit, would a reasonable person assume that it was the CG and not a pirate intent on theft and murder? I have thought about this scenario and ask: what if the CG thought the OP was a bad guy brandishing a weapon and killed him with no probable cause other than what would soon be discovered-- a fear for his life in what turned out to be a "routine" CG search? Why the night search if it was a routine stop? I'm sorry, folks, but I can't logically dismiss this incident as "routine" or dismiss the potential for a potentially horrific outcome. In regards to assumptions concerning Natraps character, I think it is irresponsible and unfair for those on this Forum to make such accusations without personal knowledge of the OP. To assume the OP is a bad guy because of the nature of this search is blatantly unfounded and without just cause. So, for those of you who quietly acquiesce to what I believe are unreasonable searches and seizures--so be it but the fine men of the USCG can better utilize their time and energy more effectively on matters other than searches of recreational vessels without just and reasonable cause. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:13   #198
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

where did I miss the part about the op brandishing weapons towards the coast gaurd?
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:17   #199
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by farm sail View Post
where did I miss the part about the op brandishing weapons towards the coast gaurd?
Farm sail,
See post #71. Best, Rognvald
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:19   #200
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

Reading through 14 pages of this thread, you guys seem to miss a key factor regarding the USCG. They are after information to do their job! I have the AIS on whenever they are near, and once this summer after crossing over the border from Canada to US, they came racing out directly toward me- I flipped the AIS on and they waved at me, did a big U turn and went back to their base!
Gee guys, make it easier on them! They are just trying to enforce laws of our country. Let them know how boring you are (at least I am)!
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:44   #201
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
Good thing your following what I post so closely, my mission is successful, be sure to subscribe as well! . I hope you bring cookies and good manners when your approached at sea. And FYI we did have the M1A ready and they saw it. The coast guard understood our concern completely, and were not bothered by the fact we were ready to defend ourselves at 4am in the middle of no where. Jokes on you.
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Farm sail,
See post #71. Best, Rognvald
Obviously another assumption, but I don't think he meant that he had the Rifle "At the ready" i.e. in his shoulder, rather that he had it ready in the cockpit as in not locked away in the safe.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:55   #202
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Delancey,
If you were in international waters known for piracy and a boat approached at 4:30 in the morning, in the dark, and shined a light into your cockpit, would a reasonable person assume that it was the CG and not a pirate intent on theft and murder? I have thought about this scenario and ask: what if the CG thought the OP was a bad guy brandishing a weapon and killed him with no probable cause other than what would soon be discovered-- a fear for his life in what turned out to be a "routine" CG search? Why the night search if it was a routine stop? I'm sorry, folks, but I can't logically dismiss this incident as "routine" or dismiss the potential for a potentially horrific outcome. In regards to assumptions concerning Natraps character, I think it is irresponsible and unfair for those on this Forum to make such accusations without personal knowledge of the OP. To assume the OP is a bad guy because of the nature of this search is blatantly unfounded and without just cause. So, for those of you who quietly acquiesce to what I believe are unreasonable searches and seizures--so be it but the fine men of the USCG can better utilize their time and energy more effectively on matters other than searches of recreational vessels without just and reasonable cause. Good luck and safe sailing.
I'm not passing any judgement or making any assumptions about anyone's character. If someone wants to live their life being suspicious or distrustful of others, then have at it!

I'm just wondering out loud why someone whose automatic response to being approached by strangers night or day is to start waving a gun around would be so surprised when someone else is not automatically receptive his actions.

Is this really so hard to understand? Seems like pretty basic psychology.

One boat simply approaching another is not in and of itself an automatically hostile action but displaying a weapon to an approaching boat certainly is.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:08   #203
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
The coast guard understood our concern completely, and were not bothered by the fact we were ready to defend ourselves at 4am in the middle of no where. Jokes on you.
I think you could argue that the joke is on the OP since whatever his read on what the small boat crew thought didn't matter much to the commanders making decisions on the mothership.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:11   #204
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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I worked closely with the USCG for years, they were a pretty professional bunch of guys for the most part.
When I saw one of those USCG guys stepping on a lifeline to transfer back to their RIB I did not think that was professional. In fact if I was in command of that cutter I would be embarassed by that.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:12   #205
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I'm not passing any judgement or making any assumptions about anyone's character. If someone wants to live their life being suspicious or distrustful of others, then have at it!

I'm just wondering out loud why someone whose automatic response to being approached by strangers night or day is to start waving a gun around would be so surprised when someone else is not automatically receptive his actions.

Is this really so hard to understand? Seems like pretty basic psychology.

One boat simply approaching another is not in and of itself an automatically hostile action but displaying a weapon to an approaching boat certainly is.
Delancey,
4:30 a.m. Pitch dark. Known pirate waters. Unreasonable? Why not approach at daybreak in full visibility for a "safety check"? I believe it has been reported that the CG had been following them for some time. Shock and awe on a recreational vessel? Four and one half hour search. Body swabs. Nothing found. Just doing their job to protect America against illegal drugs and immigrants? What did they really accomplish other than, to me, an obvious case of harassment. The CG is a first rate SAR organization. This, to me, was over the top and and diminishes their outstanding reputation. Best, R
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:14   #206
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Except when your Flag State has a ship boarding agreement.

Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) Ship Boarding Agreements
(snip)]
The PSI agreements do NOT allow boarding without permission to board without approval from the flag country. Look for the following text in the agreements ".the requesting Party may request through the Competent Authority of the requested Party, "
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:14   #207
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I'm just wondering out loud why someone whose automatic response to being approached by strangers night or day is to start waving a gun around
That's slightly inflammatory is it not? He stated the CG saw the M1A not that he was pointing it at them.

I get that there is an inherent response to strongly either be pro gun on board or anti gun on board, but this statement paints a "crazed gun nut" type picture off of something seemingly benine. The OP stated he had a gun in the cockpit not that he was ready to shoot at the CG. Even if you look at the suspected pirate thread they didn't pick up there guns until the "suspects" were actively trying to get on board.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:19   #208
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Delancey,
4:30 a.m. Pitch dark. Known pirate waters. Unreasonable? Why not approach at daybreak in full visibility for a "safety check"? I believe it has been reported that the CG had been following them for some time. Shock and awe on a recreational vessel? Four and one half hour search. Body swabs. Nothing found. Just doing their job to protect America against illegal drugs and immigrants? What did they really accomplish other than, to me, an obvious case of harassment. The CG is a first rate SAR organization. This, to me, was over the top and and diminishes their outstanding reputation. Best, R
Unforutnately this is going to start to turn into a pro gun vs anti gun thread and how some people are "unreasonably" afraid of pirates, that others believe dont exist
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:23   #209
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Sadly, in the violent USA.....

Jim
“The violent USA”?

The USA doesn’t even make the top 20.

The 20 Most Homicidal Countries In The World - Business Insider

Most of us go about our lives and never experience crime or violence. There are over 320 million people here so there is bound to be some violence but nowhere near what the media makes it out to be. What violence we do have is mostly criminals shooting each other and the occasional nut case shooting up a gun free zone.

I have lived up and down the east coast and don’t know anyone who has been the victim of violence or a crime. Obviously we stay away from the inner cities because that is where the gangbangers do most of their work. I imagine that is true for most countries.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:36   #210
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Re: U.S. Coast Guard boarding experience (not typical i dont think)

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Obviously we stay away from the inner cities because that is where the gangbangers do most of their work. I imagine that is true for most countries.
actualy, that is wrong for most countries that you would want to compare yourself to.
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