Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-09-2011, 13:01   #1
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Treasure Hunting

Odyssey Marine has salvaged an estimated half billion dollars worth of coins from a sunken Spanish vessel it took the time to locate. The ship sank in the 19th century. A US Court recently ruled in favor of the Spanish government in a court case: Appeals Court Rules For Spain In Shipwreck Case : NPR The legal question that is most prevalent is that the ship was a warship and as such is not subject to salvage rights.
__________________

__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 13:38   #2
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Treasure Hunting

If I recall, in the case of warships, the wreckage and whatever it contains is considered the property of the government the ship served or that government's recognized successor State. Privateers and ships engaged in private commerce are exempted from treaty obiligations.
__________________

__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 13:55   #3
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Re: Treasure Hunting

Warships are and have been considered TOMBS. That also makes it tomb robbing technically...
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 14:19   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Treasure Hunting

US is trying to stave off what is or was going to happen to Greece by giving Spain the loot uh..oh..uh...I was going to try and make a joke but the economy is no laughing matter..think I will just cry instead ..wonder what they would of ruled if it had been a Nazi warship with stolen Jewish silver?Im sure most of the silver had been "liberated" from South America anyway!!Why did Britan sink it if it was on a commercial venture?
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 14:28   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Re: Treasure Hunting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
If I recall, in the case of warships, the wreckage and whatever it contains is considered the property of the government the ship served or that government's recognized successor State. Privateers and ships engaged in private commerce are exempted from treaty obiligations.
I can see the point of warships. Interesting though in the case of Spanish Galleons bringing silver from the New World were they really Warships or was that plunder that they had stolen from the Mayans or Aztecs or Incas who had stolen it from smaller less formidable tribes a business deal. Seems to me that once the water has covered an item for several hundred years that the person who takes the time and effort to retrieve the cargo should be entitled to a large portion if not the entire treasure.

I guess it would be the same as another of my questions. When does history become history. Or what is the statute of limitations on modernity? Should the British have to give back Northern Ireland even though the people who live there have voted on it and don't want to be part of Ireland? Should the US give Alta California back to the Mexican government? In my cynical view History is written by the people with the most up to date lawyers or army. Doesn't mean that the history is accurate though.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 15:47   #6
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Treasure Hunting

Quote:
Why did Britan sink it if it was on a commercial venture?
While traveling in a small fleet returning to Spain from South America in 1804, the Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes, carrying enormous quantities of gold, silver and jewels, was blown up by the British off Cape Santa Maria, Portugal. Spain was at the time a neutral country, but was showing strong signs of declaring war in alliance with Napoleonic France. Acting on Admiralty orders Vice-Admiral Sir Graham Moore required the Spaniards to change their course and sail for England. The senior Spanish officer, Rear-Admiral Don José Bustamente, refused and opened fire on the British, leading to a short battle during which the Mercedes blew up. A Spanish account of the Mercedes describes her as "breaking like an egg, dumping her yolk into the deep." The account also goes on to say that the Mercedes didn't sink, but that "the decks were awash save for the poop." Most of the survivors were rescued from the Mercedes herself from one or two small boats. The English Prize Office removed 4,773,153 gold and silver pesos from the three captured ships, 1,307,634 of which belonged to the king of Spain. Another $1,000,000 in gold and silver, including a solders' fund of 143,070 pesos, was estimated to have gone down with the Mercedes. After the incident Spain declared war on England.

Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes (Merchant Royal)

See also

http://books.google.com/books?id=iH9...page&q&f=false
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2011, 17:57   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Columbia 41
Posts: 522
Re: Treasure Hunting

If Odyssey Marine looses their appeal the only fair thing to do is to put the haul back where they found it. The Spaniards are so clever and all, they can go find it for themselves.
__________________
Sam Plan B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2011, 00:42   #8
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Treasure Hunting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
While traveling in a small fleet returning to Spain from South America in 1804, the Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes, carrying enormous quantities of gold, silver and jewels, was blown up by the British off Cape Santa Maria, Portugal. Spain was at the time a neutral country, but was showing strong signs of declaring war in alliance with Napoleonic France. Acting on Admiralty orders Vice-Admiral Sir Graham Moore required the Spaniards to change their course and sail for England. The senior Spanish officer, Rear-Admiral Don José Bustamente, refused and opened fire on the British, leading to a short battle during which the Mercedes blew up. A Spanish account of the Mercedes describes her as "breaking like an egg, dumping her yolk into the deep." The account also goes on to say that the Mercedes didn't sink, but that "the decks were awash save for the poop." Most of the survivors were rescued from the Mercedes herself from one or two small boats. The English Prize Office removed 4,773,153 gold and silver pesos from the three captured ships, 1,307,634 of which belonged to the king of Spain. Another $1,000,000 in gold and silver, including a solders' fund of 143,070 pesos, was estimated to have gone down with the Mercedes. After the incident Spain declared war on England.

Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes (Merchant Royal)

See also

The royal navy: a history from the ... - Sir William Laird Clowes, Sir Clements Robert Markham, Alfred Thayer Mahan, Herbert Wrigley Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, Leonard George Carr Laughton - Google Books
Brains and..are those Bugle Boys your wearing?
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2011, 10:39   #9
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Treasure Hunting

Actually old style (1930s) riding breeches or jodhpurs.
__________________

__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking to Buy, Hunting for Suggestions KrazzyKanuck Liveaboard's Forum 4 14-08-2011 09:21
Hunting for the 'Raukawa' Robittybob1 Off Topic Forum 16 24-07-2011 14:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.