Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-01-2016, 15:22   #76
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Just to clarify my thoughts...

RC is correct in stating that we don't know where the generator was stored while running, but my reiteration of Brian's observation about the boat shape was more to explain that I would not have considered this aspect of the boat's enclosed design until Brian pointed it out.

Second, regarding whether the crew of the boat should have been aware of the dangers and what level of competence they may or may not have held in boat operation, I freely confess that despite having grown up around boats all my life, and having sailed independently from the age of four, I simply might never have considered the risk of CO poisoning from a generator. And yet I have been acutely aware of CO issues from years of driving very suspect old cars. Maybe the fact that all of my boats have been either outboard powered or very Spartan in their facilities is a contributing factor.

But the main thing is, I have a tertiary education in Science and a good enough IQ to tie my shoes without help but I am stunned to discover that I simply did not understand fully the risks of such systems (generators and LPG appliances) on boats. And if someone with my background can miss many of these traps what hope does a boat newbie have of avoiding such pitfalls?

Today I bought two CO detectors on my way home. They were AU$57 each, have a ten year rated battery life (like my very ugly new EPIRB) and one will go in the boat while the other will go in the hall outside our bedrooms because we have gas fired central heating. No, I am not one of those too frightened to step outside my door for fear of the sky falling, but equally I am not one to ignore a tragic and painful lesson learned by another.

Rest their souls.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Just a thought. Did you purchase CO gas detectors or CO fire detectors? Or combination of both?

It's just that a CO fire detector which are commonly purchased at hardware stores, won't detect for CO poisoning (the silent killer).

And if you have LPG appliances in your boat, get a gas detector too as an absolute must. It's required by law too, not that any of us take much notice of that.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 15:23   #77
Registered User
 
goat's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Everywhere (Sea of Cortez right now)
Boat: PSC Orion 27
Posts: 1,097
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

I love my Origo, but it creates havoc from time to time with the CO detector. Oil lamps, not so much, but still a hazard. The standard dorade vents aren't enough ventilation.
I've been gassed many times in the line of work (H2S, SO2, H2, CO, CO2 etc.) but I wouldn't sleep on a boat without CO and smoke detectors installed.
Ummm... I wonder if this explains my less than stellar IQ?

A true tragedy that could have been a lot worse. I'm glad they got the girl off when they did. It's one thing if us old, beat-down codgers get offed, another if it's a kid......

goat
__________________

__________________
goat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 15:28   #78
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Just a thought. Did you purchase CO gas detectors or CO fire detectors? Or combination of both?

It's just that a CO fire detector which are commonly purchased at hardware stores, won't detect for CO poisoning (the silent killer).

And if you have LPG appliances in your boat, get a gas detector too as an absolute must. It's required by law too, not that any of us take much notice of that.
There is no such thing as a CO fire detector. There are fire detectors (principle of detection : smoke), CO detectors, and there are some combination detectors, which are simply both in one box.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 16:41   #79
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
Boat: triton 721 24' x 9' 1985 Cutter rigged.
Posts: 922
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
I love my Origo, but it creates havoc from time to time with the CO detector. Oil lamps, not so much, but still a hazard. The standard dorade vents aren't enough ventilation.
I've been gassed many times in the line of work (H2S, SO2, H2, CO, CO2 etc.) but I wouldn't sleep on a boat without CO and smoke detectors installed.
Ummm... I wonder if this explains my less than stellar IQ?

A true tragedy that could have been a lot worse. I'm glad they got the girl off when they did. It's one thing if us old, beat-down codgers get offed, another if it's a kid......

goat
Nice post.
And if you can still spell and articulate your views the way you do then your gassings haven't unstella'd you...that's whit it seems to me.
Little girl and Daddy still going, nearly bring tears to this old bastards eyes.
__________________
brianlara 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 16:44   #80
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
Boat: triton 721 24' x 9' 1985 Cutter rigged.
Posts: 922
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Just a thought. Did you purchase CO gas detectors or CO fire detectors? Or combination of both?

It's just that a CO fire detector which are commonly purchased at hardware stores, won't detect for CO poisoning (the silent killer).

And if you have LPG appliances in your boat, get a gas detector too as an absolute must. It's required by law too, not that any of us take much notice of that.
I paid top dollar, got multiple gas recognition.
That was three years ago. Change the batteries every 6 months and test seriously often.

Good thread this one.
__________________
brianlara 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 18:34   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: So Cal
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 943
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
There is no such thing as a CO fire detector. There are fire detectors (principle of detection : smoke), CO detectors, and there are some combination detectors, which are simply both in one box.
Yup. I have a CO detector on the boat (and no LPG, but gasoline/petrol propulsion). I have several of the combination CO/smoke detectors in my RV (caravan). I also have a propane detector in the RV.

My CO detector has gone off in the boat from a boat nearby idling. Because CO can collect in the enclosed spaces of the boat.

There have been a few instances of people being poisoned by CO in a tent or rv/caravan NEXT to one running it's generator. The CO from the genset goes through a window or into a tent. CO kills you. LPG will kill you when the boat goes boom. Both are very dangerous because they settle low - i.e. no way out in a boat hull.

Very very sad story.
__________________
jeepbluetj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 18:45   #82
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
A true tragedy that could have been a lot worse. I'm glad they got the girl off when they did. It's one thing if us old, beat-down codgers get offed, another if it's a kid......
It has now been announced that the child's problem was not related to CO poisoning. Thus, in a way, had she not become ill, those other blokes wouldn't have had the job of returning the boat to Hobart and the skipper would perhaps not have made the fatal mistake that they did. The fickle finger of fate was beckoning...

What a sad, unnecessary accident...

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 18:58   #83
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Just a thought. Did you purchase CO gas detectors or CO fire detectors? Or combination of both?
Hi RC, I bought two of the dedicated CO detectors sold with the Quell brand.

I might be kidding myself, it was close to double the price of the others so I hoped that spending the extra moola would increase the chance of it not being a total waste of money.

I saw some combo units but I am sceptical about such things and try to buy the tool that does one job well, rather than a tool that does many jobs poorly.

Matt
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 19:29   #84
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
Boat: triton 721 24' x 9' 1985 Cutter rigged.
Posts: 922
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
It has now been announced that the child's problem was not related to CO poisoning. Thus, in a way, had she not become ill, those other blokes wouldn't have had the job of returning the boat to Hobart and the skipper would perhaps not have made the fatal mistake that they did. The fickle finger of fate was beckoning...

What a sad, unnecessary accident...

Jim

How wise.
__________________
brianlara 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:12   #85
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
There is no such thing as a CO fire detector. There are fire detectors (principle of detection : smoke), CO detectors, and there are some combination detectors, which are simply both in one box.
Stop being so pedantic around the wording

There are fire detectors which are used to detect 'fires' by the carbon monoxide produced by the fire. There generally put on walls, and ceilings. They are still not a recognised fire alarm in Australia.

There are fire detectors that detect fires by 'seeing' the smoke.

There are fire detectors that detect fires by 'heat'.

And as you point out, there are combinations of such.

None of these are entirely suitable for boats though they don't hurt. On a boat a bilge alarm is necessary with a detector that will detect gas at its lowest point, without the detector getting wet.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:22   #86
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
On a boat a bilge alarm is necessary with a detector that will detect gas at its lowest point, without the detector getting wet.
Yeah, bugger-it. I killed the sensor on our bilge gas alarm when I shipped bit of water a few weeks back. Still got two spares, but at $90 each I am pretty pissed with myself.
__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:24   #87
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Hi RC, I bought two of the dedicated CO detectors sold with the Quell brand.

I might be kidding myself, it was close to double the price of the others so I hoped that spending the extra moola would increase the chance of it not being a total waste of money.

I saw some combo units but I am sceptical about such things and try to buy the tool that does one job well, rather than a tool that does many jobs poorly.

Matt
I think that's wise Matt. Do you use any LPG gas items on board? If you do, I strongly recommend a gas detector of some kind. One which puts the censor down low.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:26   #88
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
It has now been announced that the child's problem was not related to CO poisoning. Thus, in a way, had she not become ill, those other blokes wouldn't have had the job of returning the boat to Hobart and the skipper would perhaps not have made the fatal mistake that they did. The fickle finger of fate was beckoning...

What a sad, unnecessary accident...

Jim
Where did you hear that Jim, I've been out all days so hasn't seen today's news.

Another way of looking at the scenario is that if the child had not become ill, we could be looking at four deaths instead of two
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:30   #89
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Yeah, bugger-it. I killed the sensor on our bilge gas alarm when I shipped bit of water a few weeks back. Still got two spares, but at $90 each I am pretty pissed with myself.
At $90 I know exactly what unit you have then. I have the same detector/alarm and I too ruined a detector two years ago when I let the head get wet

Two peas in a pod

I don't have any spares now
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 04:34   #90
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 3,585
Re: Tragic situation in Tasmania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I think that's wise Matt. Do you use any LPG gas items on board? If you do, I strongly recommend a gas detector of some kind. One which puts the censor down low.
Our posts passed like ships in the night.

Yes, I have a bilge gas sensor (minus one spare sensor).

I am of the old-fashioned "turn it off at the tap" mentality with this stuff, only turn the gas on when we actually want to use the stove (not that often with daily temps around 40 degrees here) and turn it off immediately afterwards.

There was a good post on "worst for sale pictures" a while back where somebody had a notice by the companionway in pretty foul language reminding themselves to turn off the gas.

But that's the thing about this sad, sad story. I have been so fixated on not blowing ourselves out of the water, while I did not know that LPG could produce Carbon Monoxide.

Matt
__________________

__________________
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
http://www.swansonsailor.id.au
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TRAGIC SINKING of Classic Sailing Yacht "PPALU" beiland Multihull Sailboats 2 01-03-2015 06:23
Tragic Accident in New Caledonia nhschneider Health, Safety & Related Gear 9 30-11-2010 09:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.