Tolerance

[John Casey]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

... but you missed one stage, the experience, between knowledge and understanding.

Touché.

Swap "experience" with "judgement," and you've got what folks with a military background will likely recognize.

I apologize for staff school flashbacks in advance

[sabray]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Sebray honny, thanks for tolerating my wrong viewpoint and for your lovely example too. So I'm unsure, do you believe that climate change is man made or not. Just wondering, for your post gives no basis or fact supporting your claim that I am wrong.

I find many times that my ponderings are far outside the mainstream understanding. I've always danced to a beat of a different drum. It is quite possible my understanding of greenhouse gas interactions is incomplete and flawed.

That the climate is changing is not in question. I expect over the next 10-20 years scientists will find it is changing far faster then predicted in their studies/models. Myself I believe that we are well past the tipping point. Though mainly due to studies of arctic methane plumes both on Land and sea based. The methane releases in the arctic were not even considered in the original greenhouse gas studies. Here's a few links: Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Arctic Sea Ice - Methane Release - Planetary Emergency
Arctic seafloor methane releases double previous estimates -- ScienceDaily

So now you know the basis of my unfounded emotional viewpoint.

I think scientist tied co2 levels with average temps conclusively. The co2 levels begin spiking early 1900 and climb at a rate that is abnormal to regular history. Hope I don't have to google this for you. You are right we could tip the scale and release natural insulating gasses. I hope we did not already do that. My take is we should conserve our resources, be efficient as possible and open to ideas. It's amazing how the climate change idea evolved from liberal bs to now agreement. I was a early critique of global warming flag wavers. The message was wrong. The message should have been we are changing get in the wagon and try to adapt. The early message was idiot give up your ways and change.
On a thread about tolerance we got into this which I though was open to some fun. Even though you are wrong on some points you are right on with others. Good that we can tolerate our differed points of view.
Should I take being called honny (sic) as a slant that is tolerable as a cultural difference. Or demeaning like idiot " honey" are you for real.




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[gonesail]

tolerance is the ability or willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with. seems like it works both ways. i might have an opinion about your behavior and your tolerance allows me to disagree with you. that's life.

[FSMike]

"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted."
Gamble Rogers

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Should we tolerate what we think is wrong? i.e. morally wrong?

How strongly should we speak out? if at all? To what extent should we jeopardize our privacy or livelihood for principles?

Ann

No, but we can tolerate the opinions of others, and respect their right to have an opinion.

We can disagree strongly with someone's opinion by refuting it with an opinion on the subject matter. Leveling insults or assigning someone a negative label isn't debating them.

Just going sailing works, too.

[SV Windrush II]

I think exchanging views and ideas is healthy to learn from eachother. It is when I demand that others think like me is where it is not helping anyone and keeps me from growing and moving forward.

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[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by leightonyachts

I think exchanging views and ideas is healthy to learn from eachother. It is when I demand that others think like me is where it is not helping anyone and keeps me from growing and moving forward.

Good point.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by sabray

I think scientist tied co2 levels with average temps conclusively. The co2 levels begin spiking early 1900 and climb at a rate that is abnormal to regular history

Actually I concur with that, CO2 is tied to average temps. But CO2 concentration follows temperature rise not actually the other way around as some climate scientists believe.

New research in Antarctica shows CO2 follows temperature “by a few hundred years at most” | Watts Up With That?

That the earth is right near the peak maximum temperature of the 100k year ice age cycle I believe has some sway on it. I also believe that if man stopped all CO2 production (which will never happen) that it would make minimal difference in global warming. Oddly supported by many really smart folks with lots of equations backing it up too. Though not the scientists that are paid by the UN

Total man made greenhouse gas production accounts for only 0.28% of the annual greenhouse gases each year. Man made CO2 accounts for 2.8% of global Co2 output. But it is not the major source of greenhouse gas. So at most any impact in CO2 reduction, would be extremely minimal.

Of course mine and some really smart folks understanding that C02 increase follows temperature rise may be flawed, and fly's in the face of what is generally preached to the masses. I would not be surprised if there was geo-political influences involved with the whole greenhouse gas thingy. Oh look I just interjected politics into the discussion. Gee maybe anchors cause global warming.

Its the natural greenhouse gas production that makes the earth habitable. Without the greenhouse effect, the earth would be an ice ball. Burrr...

I'm actually happy there are disagreements. What a boring world this would be if everyone agreed with everybody else.. Luckily, that's never been one of my strong points, agreeing with others or being average.

BTW Despite my radical climate viewpoints, or maybe because of it, I have been a hippy chic and been conserving resources all my life. I commuted via bicycle long before it became fashionable. Had solar hot water back in the 80's, etc.. Now a days I live in 150 SF sailboat and my power is 100% via solar. So however it goes, I've reduced my carbon footprint about as far as I can.

[sabray]

See we disagree and I used strong words like wrong. But we are civil and still don't completely agree. That is tolerance. Better yet we are able to converse with out death tones. I even pushed a tad to see if either if us would escalate and we did not.
Co2 levels are way outside the norm. One would think that temps would begin to pursue that abnormality.
Arsenic occurs naturally. At a low ppb count its survivable. As that escalates up the death toll will gopp


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[letsgetsailing3]

At this point, why don't you two start a different thread about greenhouse gases?

It's an interesting example of tolerance, but debating the subject could be somewhere else, since people who are interested will have a tough time finding it here.

[captain58sailin]

Ann Cate, I went to the Wooden boat festival in Hobart more than a few years ago, and I had a wonderful time. Many beautiful wooden boats and booths etc... I didn't win the beautiful wooden sailing skiff in the drawing, but it was good fun and good food. Oh and as far as tolerance goes, the interaction I read on the web is far more virulent than anything I have ever witnessed in a personal exchange either by myself or watching others. What people write to each other on the web would earn them at the very least a bloody nose in real life. Part of the issue is there is no exchange of signals when you post, body language, tone of voice, inflection, facial tics etc... so it is easy to become misunderstood, but the speed at which people take umbrage to a miscommunication is alarming. And some people are just nasty whether they are here, or in real life.

[Stu Jackson]

Interesting discussion.

One of things that I see here on CF is that there are tons of "topics" - general, sailing, destinations, and then the technical ones.

I believe you'll find that when it comes to the more technical ones, including anchors, but primarily electrical, mechanical and plubming SYSTEMS, most folks are pretty civil.

It's when it gets into opinions, in the less technical areas, that "facts" tend to get twisted by "opinions" and vice versa.

A technical example: the UK loves to send their alternator outputs to the start battery bank 'cuz they're deathly afraid they won't be able to start their engines again, while those of us in the US prefer to send the AO to the house bank, since that one needs charging more. On this and other forums, we've literally beaten this to death. Eventually, however, we all came to the conclusion that both ways work in the real world.

Your boat, your choice.

I enjoy reading other people's points of view, usually learn something that hadn't occurred to me, and move on.

There are lotsa Dillloways out there. Doesn't mean I have to deal with them if I don't want to.

[captainbri]

Part of the reason for the intolerance is that it is easier to be intolerant sitting at a computer. It is not so easy to do when face to face. Most people are different when not behind some screen. Ill call it OZ syndrome. Remember the change in the wizard when he wasn't behind the curtain. Very few people I have met offline are as abrasive as when they are online.

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[jimbunyard]

After reading the first few posts responding to this apparently philosophical point, it struck me that the opposite seemed more accurate. It appears that the current PC position is that anything's OK, because somebody else did it.

Of course, everyone knows that that's not true, they just don't have the balls to say so. Some moron (how intolerant!) pulls out in front of me, I have to look out for them?? And I could go on, ad infinitum. (As you well know)

How bout let's rephrase the question, "When did it become okay to become inconsiderate?"

And let me offer an answer. "When our affluence outran our (lifes') inherent neeeed for adversity.

So there, nah na, na nah na

[robert sailor]

On the bright side of opposing opinions my Dad took me aside when I was a young boy and upset that I couldn't get agreement and told me.." Listen Robert, no one learns anything from someone that agrees with us"