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BandB · 10-04-2014, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabray

Your analysis of green house gas is flawed. But you know that right? Tolerance is okay. I guess. I really try to give opinion that has a real related experience. Sometimes I find that what I experienced and my conclusion is wrong. Like you are wrong about climate change. Which is opinion and only backed up by scientist that agree with me.
I can tolerate this wrong view you have. Giving unfounded emotional views and unsupported advice I frown upon.
I will tolerate your posts as you usually have good information.

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Why not just say you disagree with her analysis and opinions instead of claiming she is wrong? Why not "I believe you are wrong?" Just curious. Saying you will "tolerate this wrong view you have" is a bit condescending. Perhaps it's your view that's wrong? Perhaps you're both wrong? Perhaps you both have some things right. But they're opinions. I'm just not sure how any of us get to decide the opinions of others are wrong. Just they're ones we disagree with.

sabray · 10-04-2014, 22:31

No it's not condescending. It's acknowledging and supportive. She is wrong because her data is unsupported. I acknowledge that I have made mistakes too. I agree to tolerate her misinformed view. Compliments to her usually good quality and knowledge. Sorry if I upset you. Any assumed humor was not intended. I will retain what I will tolerate

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letsgetsailing3 · 10-04-2014, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

I'll toss out one other question in that regard. There seems to be some belief by many here that if you don't sail you're not a cruiser and by others that if you don't sail full time and/or live aboard you're not a true cruiser. It's almost like if you don't forsake all the things most people have or the type lives others lead then you don't really belong.

Sometimes people attempt to diminish another person's opinion by putting them into what they deem to be an undesirable category.

It's a form of ad hominem argument -- claiming that someone's point is invalid because of some irrelevant personal fact (real or perceived), or that they're not really a member of the group.

BandB · 10-04-2014, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabray

No it's not condescending. It's acknowledging and supportive. She is wrong because her data is unsupported. I acknowledge that I have made mistakes too. I agree to tolerate her misinformed view. Compliments to her usually good quality and knowledge. Sorry if I upset you. Any assumed humor was not intended. I will retain what I will tolerate

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Don't worry about assumed humor. I found no humor in it.

**Jim Cate** · 10-04-2014, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

I'll toss out one other question in that regard. There seems to be some belief by many here that if you don't sail you're not a cruiser and by others that if you don't sail full time and/or live aboard you're not a true cruiser. It's almost like if you don't forsake all the things most people have or the type lives others lead then you don't really belong.

I think that you are being a bit defensive here. Folks who don't sail at all can't be cruising sailors... I think that is a reasonable assertation!

And for the other categories that you suggest, well, from experience I can say that folks who live aboard full time are involved with a very different set of life experiences afloat than those who are weekend sailors, or once a quarter sailors or twice a year charterers. And those who cruise, far away from home waters 12 months out of the year surely experience vastly different joys and crises and dispair and... I don't know about what we "belong" to, but we ARE different.

Obviously one can define "cruiser" however one wants. If you chose to say that anyone who sails that does not race is a cruiser, well, it is OK with me... but many of them live in a different world than mine. I don't claim superiority of lifestyle, but I defend my differing perceptions of "cruising".

Cheers,

Jim

Mike OReilly · 11-04-2014, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

I'll toss out one other question in that regard. There seems to be some belief by many here that if you don't sail you're not a cruiser and by others that if you don't sail full time and/or live aboard you're not a true cruiser.

BandB, are you trying to explore why people behave with less civility online (are more intolerant)? Or, are you simply trying to address how specific topics have been dealt with in the recent past? Examples are good, but if you just want to re-hash old discussions, then I'll exit now. They will inevitably lead down the same rabbit hole -- as we can already see happening.

LBW399 · 11-04-2014, 04:22

If I need a dose of intolerance I just watch Fox News for an hour.

**Hudson Force** · 11-04-2014, 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

It's not uncompromising views that are the issue, it's the disrespect of others with conflicting views.

I hoped everyone would have recognized that my call for us to not tolerate any more intolerance was pure jest! Yes, I was willing to make light of a serious topic. I choose to see the best in people and tend to smile and excuse myself from arguments by those that are unwilling to consider alternatives. I don't choose to attempt to reason with those that are blindly set in a path and refuse to consider other options. Of course, you are right. Those with uncompromising views can be polite; however, they don't promote any conversation. I still tend to smile, nod and walk away after a brief attempt to share alternative views. Wether it's a live encounter or an online conversation people who refuse to discuss alternative options politely don't deserve a response.

sailorboy1 · 11-04-2014, 05:42

It is a "me" world! At same time I think the "news" and all the "information" we now get makes us feel it is ok to just say stuff, especially on the internet.

"" because it isn't really how much of that stuffs slots of times something pretending to be them

John Casey · 11-04-2014, 06:17

Interesting thread for a newbie to come across here, although I am a veteran of many other forums.

I agree with Sailorboy1 that the vast majority of people have an egocentric view of most things, which exacerbates the fact that they truly understand very little at the end of the day.

I'm referring to "understanding" in the cognitive hierarchy sense. My simplified model: Data => Information =>Knowledge => Understanding

You hear a sound bite on the news and all of a sudden it’s a “fact” and you must make all people see it your way, or belittle/compartmentalize/label those that don’t.

I only know enough about sailing/cruising to make me dangerous, which is why I’m here. I know my limits and it does no one any good to hide them.

The same for any subject. I love to hear people proselytize about global warming and/or climate change with their so-called facts and data. The only people I actually listen to are those that say in so many words, “it depends” or “we don’t really know,” whether they have a PhD next to their name or not.

Seagullf111a · 11-04-2014, 06:25

My favorite reply from the late Rodney King, " Why can't we all just get along?".

letsgetsailing3 · 11-04-2014, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Obviously one can define "cruiser" however one wants. If you chose to say that anyone who sails that does not race is a cruiser, well, it is OK with me... but many of them live in a different world than mine. I don't claim superiority of lifestyle, but I defend my differing perceptions of "cruising".

Cheers,

Jim

You can define "cruiser" however you want. The topic here is tolerance, and a specific use of labeling in discussions.

If you have to bring up your definition of cruiser in a discussion, it's likely being used to say that the other person's point isn't valid. If their point really isn't valid, then the better way to make your point wouldn't be to label them, but to point out the flaw in their reasoning.

My definition of cruiser would be all those people who sail (or motor) from place to place in boats, whether they do it full-time, one season a year, on the weekends, or one week a year. I suppose you could debate about those who live in "their home waters" on a boat full-time, and rarely move their boat, but they have a lot in common with the people who sailed in from some distant port. After all, most people sail to a place and stay a while.

If you exclude all those people who aren't uber-cruisers, this forum becomes pretty small, and loses quite a bit of diversity of opinion. We all live in the same world, and that world intersects in this forum, as well as at the docks at the local marina.