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Old 13-04-2014, 19:28   #181
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by BandB View Post

Sailorboy, can you explain why you felt the need to do that to another forum member?

To show how the user name is worthless! And before you get into an uproar as to why I would do it ask the same of a post of saying how you use a fake user name so that people can not track you down. Take note that I didn't post her name.

And whichever "B" you are, long before you showed up on the site I used my real full name and had my boats name and location listed on this site. But the site changed and I learned it wasn't really a good idea.

BTW - if you want to complain to someone about something in the public forum don't ask it on the same public forum unless you are just trying to sound you have some kind of special high ground! How about that for some tolerance?
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:31   #182
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I suspect you over estimate the power of CF, I saw no references positive or negative to CF comments in the general media

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i think you will be surprised how many journalists are members on the forum,and regularly germinate stories from threads on this forum and ybw.

i can think of 2 just off the top of my head,one of whom is an editor for a well know sailing magazine,others are just wordsmiths looking for a good story that they can sell to the dailys
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:45   #183
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
Even if the overall level of intolerance has not increased in my lifetime (although it seems to me that it has), that doesn't mean it's at an acceptable level. There are more of us every day, the world is getting smaller, maybe it would be best for everyone if we all increased our levels of tolerance.

Have we really given up on the future of mankind? Do most people think that this is as good as it gets? That the forces of nature and human instinct have sealed our fate? It seems so me that many feel that way.

We are unique creatures in that we really do get to decide, as individuals and as a society, what life should be. No other creature has that ability. Communism? What a really great idea. Too bad it didn't work, at least not yet. The definition of marriage? We get to decide. Instant replay in baseball? Who would have thunk? (I wish more people had hope for a better future or at least a different future.)

Tolerance has improved my life immeasurably. Road rage is not fun and it is not the secret to a long satisfying life. However, I don't think tolerance is the key word, there are many actions and maybe even a few ideas that I will not tolerate. I believe that it is compassion that is in short supply.

When we judge someone, and we have to judge each other every day, we should do it with a healthy dose of compassion. There but for the grace of god, go I. One chromosome short, one dollar short, one nautical mile short and my life would be completely different. I hope I will be judged with compassion.

I agree 100% about compassion, and I feel I'm very tolerant of different views on web forums, but strangely enough as I've gotten older, I've become far less tolerant of a number of issues in real life, mostly political.

I guess you're not supposed to discuss politics around here, so I'll stop there.

I'm in awe of a guy racing in a wheelchair, he doesn't need my compassion, he's my inspiration! We all get dealt s**tty cards sometimes, some people get knocked into the dirt. It's how one deals with it that defines you.
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:47   #184
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Okay Mike, (I'm Steve, BTW) - I went and read that study.

It doesn't really support using real names on websites to cut down on rude behavior. It says there are SOME people who exhibit online disinhibition, not a majority, or any specific percentage.

They list 6 different reasons for this disinhibition, only one of which is dissociative anonymity, the only one dealing with using an online persona. The author is very careful not to associate any numbers to any of the 6 possible causes.

In summary, I do feel they mention it as one out of 6 possible causes, but they don't say how many people are disinhibited and they make no mention of how many of that percentage act rudely, and how many of them would not act rudely if forced to use their real names.

I do think that a very small % of people would change their writing style if forced to use their real name. I think a much larger % are either polite or rude just because that's who they are, or how the website is run.

How do you explain the overwhelming majority of polite posters on here who use board names? What about those who post politely here, yet fit right in on SA under the same board name?
I appreciate you taking the time to read the study Steve, and thanks too for offering your the real name. I always find it odd responding to bizarre made-up names.

You're quite right, of course, that the vast majority of users here, and on most (not all) online forums are reasonable, civil people. I would never say (nor does any research suggest) that most people will behave poorly. What evidence does show is that there is an increased tendency for this to happen. AND that forcing people to provide actual identity reduces this tendency. That's all.

Most people everywhere are decent and civil. Online networks increase the boorishness of the discourse. This is due, in part, to the anonymity provided by these spaces. It's certainly not the whole picture, but it is not inconsequential.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:10   #185
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Forgive me if you do not consider the two sentences above to be logically linked.

Neither do I

(I seem to recall the technical term for the fallacy of connecting them is "Denying the Antecedent" which IIRC applies to any argument of the form: If A then B, Not A, thus Not B )


No, they are not logically linked. One was in response to the study, I think a very small % of people would change their writing style on any website if they had to switch over to their user name.

The 2nd sentence is an observation about this website, plenty of polite posters, very few of them using their real names. If using an alias really allowed that many people to post whatever rudeness entered their minds, we'd see a lot more rude posts here.

My position is that the moderators determine how rude people will get on any specific website. Examples of well moderated sites include this one, and TheDieselPage. Lots of info, no personal attacks allowed. They also insist on disclosing any business association with a vendor or product.

Examples of zoos run amok, SA and Pirate4x4, where one is more likely to get a graphic description of one's conception including the family German Shepherd than any helpful advice on suspension setup.

Yet some of the same posters post here and on SA. Some of the same people are on TheDieselPage and on Pirate 4x4. The same person goes to one site for information, and goes to a different website for...

I dunno, drama? Fun? Get their aggression out?
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:39   #186
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
that was my worry , that speculation/inuendo here could have a direct and real effect on real people in real life in real time.
who also happen to be longtime members,not some annomous name in the papers.

In real time, the parents are at their daughter's side either enroute or at the hospital. They don't have any time to listen to or read anything from a website. Their focus is on the matter at hand, not on what other people think or post.

You mention that they're longtime members, not anonymous names on the web. So obviously you feel that people you know deserve better treatment than people you don't know. I look at it differently. Their decisions and actions either deserve comment or ridicule based solely on their merit. I would hope for a good outcome regardless of whether I know them or not.

If the "Flyin Hawaiian" was sinking right now enroute to Hawaii, I would hope that they all get successfully rescued before they got too far. Afterwards, I'd throw in a little critique based on what little I know of hull design and construction, but I'd be equally critical if it were a friend of mine. Actually, if a friend of mine built the FH, it would have been over my very strong objections, because I think friends have an obligation to be very honest and try to keep them from making mistakes.

Example, let's say Rod was a member here before he started building FH and he told us of his plans. I would join in with the crowd in urging him not to do it. If he were a friend of mine, then I'd go over and talk to him in person and try to talk him out of it. But neither would get more or less ridicule or more or less moral support just because of friendship. I know that's human nature, even for me, so I try to counteract it with being objective and just as concerned for those whom I do not know..


Sorry if it seems like I'm hounding you, I'm not, you keep bringing up so many good points that I want to discuss!
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:54   #187
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
In real time, the parents are at their daughter's side either enroute or at the hospital. They don't have any time to listen to or read anything from a website. Their focus is on the matter at hand, not on what other people think or post.

You mention that they're longtime members, not anonymous names on the web. So obviously you feel that people you know deserve better treatment than people you don't know. I look at it differently. Their decisions and actions either deserve comment or ridicule based solely on their merit. I would hope for a good outcome regardless of whether I know them or not.

If the "Flyin Hawaiian" was sinking right now enroute to Hawaii, I would hope that they all get successfully rescued before they got too far. Afterwards, I'd throw in a little critique based on what little I know of hull design and construction, but I'd be equally critical if it were a friend of mine. Actually, if a friend of mine built the FH, it would have been over my very strong objections, because I think friends have an obligation to be very honest and try to keep them from making mistakes.

Example, let's say Rod was a member here before he started building FH and he told us of his plans. I would join in with the crowd in urging him not to do it. If he were a friend of mine, then I'd go over and talk to him in person and try to talk him out of it. But neither would get more or less ridicule or more or less moral support just because of friendship. I know that's human nature, even for me, so I try to counteract it with being objective and just as concerned for those whom I do not know..


Sorry if it seems like I'm hounding you, I'm not, you keep bringing up so many good points that I want to discuss!
well i'm pleased we got that sorted out!
going to punch out some zed'zz now
,got my own folly of joy to build in the morning
.....here's to dreaming of composite honeycombe fiberglass panels
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Old 14-04-2014, 07:25   #188
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Re: Tolerance

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well i'm pleased we got that sorted out!
going to punch out some zed'zz now
,got my own folly of joy to build in the morning
.....here's to dreaming of composite honeycombe fiberglass panels
Wifey B:

Darn man, you need to get some better dreams.
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Old 14-04-2014, 11:06   #189
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post

Examples of zoos run amok, SA and Pirate4x4, where one is more likely to get a graphic description of one's conception including the family German Shepherd than any helpful advice on suspension setup.

Yet some of the same posters post here and on SA. Some of the same people are on TheDieselPage and on Pirate 4x4. The same person goes to one site for information, and goes to a different website for...
I disagree a bit. P4x4 is as you mention, quite edgy to say the least. BUT, there's amazingly good info there. They're not tolerant of newbies. Much like some of the "what's a real cruiser" type of conversations, at P4x4 you're a noob unless you build your own parts from steel ingots. And you'll be roasted alive for being a noob. But there is lots of great info there - it just needs to be sorted from the flamethrowers. And, it's awfully entertaining at times.

So p4x4 is kinda like a biker bar, and CF is kinda like a TGIFridays. What's acceptable behavior in one is not in the other (and vice versa)
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Old 14-04-2014, 14:57   #190
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Wifey B:

Darn man, you need to get some better dreams.
Watch out that he doesn't quote Bob Dylan to you then."I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"

Coops.
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Old 14-04-2014, 15:03   #191
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Re: Tolerance

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Watch out that he doesn't quote Bob Dylan to you then."I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"

Coops.
I think it is more a case "I will scratch your back,if you scratch the fiberglass on mine
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Old 14-04-2014, 16:29   #192
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Re: Tolerance

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I think it is more a case "I will scratch your back,if you scratch the fiberglass on mine
Wifey B: Well if your back is covered with fiberglass, no wonder you dream of it.
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Old 14-04-2014, 21:01   #193
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Re: Tolerance

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I disagree a bit. P4x4 is as you mention, quite edgy to say the least. BUT, there's amazingly good info there. They're not tolerant of newbies. Much like some of the "what's a real cruiser" type of conversations, at P4x4 you're a noob unless you build your own parts from steel ingots. And you'll be roasted alive for being a noob. But there is lots of great info there - it just needs to be sorted from the flamethrowers. And, it's awfully entertaining at times.

So p4x4 is kinda like a biker bar, and CF is kinda like a TGIFridays. What's acceptable behavior in one is not in the other (and vice versa)
I wasn't referring to the info you'll get, I was comparing how much more poo they will let the members fling there compared to well moderated websites.
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Old 14-04-2014, 21:23   #194
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Re: Tolerance

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Or listen to NPR!

Or Nancy Pelosi.
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Old 14-04-2014, 21:46   #195
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Re: Tolerance

A gentle reminder that discussion of politics is outside of our rules unless it is directly connected to sailing.

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