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Old 13-04-2014, 18:18   #166
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Re: Tolerance

There's another factor besides not liking censorship that leads people to refrain from reporting snide, or sarcastic behavior that stops before actual name calling: not wanting to think of one's self as a stool pigeon.

Now I'm wondering if reluctance to complain about such things actually is a hidden help to those whose posts put themselves up by putting others down.

Something to add to being out of distance of fist or spittle, and anonymity.

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Old 13-04-2014, 18:21   #167
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Re: Tolerance

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I'd ask this question. Was that the time and place? I was disappointed that a thread started over their crisis and concern over their child became anything other than following their situation plus learning their daughter was in better condition and being taken for further medical care.

I had a problem with those on both sides who chose to turn that thread into a debate of lifestyles or a debate of their preparation or the wisdom of their cruise. I think there is a discussion for some time and there are probably lessons to be learned. It just seemed to me that the only immediate issue should have been their safety and health.

I don't see it as unreasonable to either support all their actions and their experience or to criticize certain parts of the preparation and decisions. It's just that when there are real serious human issues, getting into discussions where multiple sides are trying to argue and prove their cases is somewhat inappropriate. I certainly have opinions on the subject but did not for one moment think of posting them at that time. There was only one thing on my mind, my hopes for the health of their child.

I see people sometimes so determined to press agendas that they seem to lose sight of the issue being discussed.

For the most part I agree, especially the last sentence.

While I do agree that there is a time and a place for everything, once they were rescued, safely on board the Vandegrift and heading toward a hospital, they were no longer in need of prayers or thoughts or other such non material posts. Threads evolve, take on a life of their own. Once someone is out of danger, people's thoughts naturally turn to: what next? How did this happen? What led up to this? etc.

While I empathize with people and hope for a safe rescue and full recovery like everyone else, I wish it went without saying. Obviously no one wishes ill towards them or anyone else. My mind turns more to the pragmatic, immediately. What can be done to save the boat? If Lyra is really sick, they'd put her on a helo to Cabo, or if local facilities aren't good enough, a jet for the mainland. Some of the posts were in the form of brainstorming, and if relayed to those on the scene, could be helpful.

Once they're safely rescued and the child is getting medical care, how many more times do the same people have to keep posting their well wishes? At the risk of sounding callous, wishing people well on a website doesn't materially affect the outcome. It makes the poster feel good, it makes everyone feel good about the poster, but feeling good doesn't save a child's life. Proper medical treatment does. I'm a realist, and that is how I see it, because the truth is, when people get sick, where do they go? They go to the hospital, not to their favorite website or the church.
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Old 13-04-2014, 18:28   #168
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Re: Tolerance

[QUOTE=bethflkys;1518032 I am more interested in keeping stalkers away than in gnashing my teeth .......................... and I don't use my full name on CF.[/QUOTE]

I found your real name (or close enough to continue the search) in less than 3 minutes and I'm not even good at searching.

So using a fake name on the internet needs to really be unique with no connections to anything else in the "real" world.
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Old 13-04-2014, 18:36   #169
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
For the most part I agree, especially the last sentence.

While I do agree that there is a time and a place for everything, once they were rescued, safely on board the Vandegrift and heading toward a hospital, they were no longer in need of prayers or thoughts or other such non material posts. Threads evolve, take on a life of their own. Once someone is out of danger, people's thoughts naturally turn to: what next? How did this happen? What led up to this? etc.

While I empathize with people and hope for a safe rescue and full recovery like everyone else, I wish it went without saying. Obviously no one wishes ill towards them or anyone else. My mind turns more to the pragmatic, immediately. What can be done to save the boat? If Lyra is really sick, they'd put her on a helo to Cabo, or if local facilities aren't good enough, a jet for the mainland. Some of the posts were in the form of brainstorming, and if relayed to those on the scene, could be helpful.

Once they're safely rescued and the child is getting medical care, how many more times do the same people have to keep posting their well wishes? At the risk of sounding callous, wishing people well on a website doesn't materially affect the outcome. It makes the poster feel good, it makes everyone feel good about the poster, but feeling good doesn't save a child's life. Proper medical treatment does. I'm a realist, and that is how I see it, because the truth is, when people get sick, where do they go? They go to the hospital, not to their favorite website or the church.
if that is the case why have the rebel hearts had to go into hiding from the press at a secret location?
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Old 13-04-2014, 18:39   #170
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Re: Tolerance

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if that is the case why have the rebel hearts had to go into hiding from the press at a secret location?

Because to the ordinary public, there seems a lot of issues in the story. We may know the truth , but the landlubbers see it differently. The media therefore responds.

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Old 13-04-2014, 18:41   #171
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Re: Tolerance

Sailorboy, thanks so much for making my case for me. Of course, I know it's not that hard. However, that you just bragged about doing it, and on a thread about "tolerance", has creeped me out, as you might have guessed it would.
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Old 13-04-2014, 18:43   #172
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Re: Tolerance

Coops, who is a moderator , on another thread summed it up nicely

" keep the animosity to a simmer".

I like that , just about right.

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Old 13-04-2014, 18:56   #173
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Re: Tolerance

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Because to the ordinary public, there seems a lot of issues in the story. We may know the truth , but the landlubbers see it differently. The media therefore responds.

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that was my worry , that speculation/inuendo here could have a direct and real effect on real people in real life in real time.
who also happen to be longtime members,not some annomous name in the papers.
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:01   #174
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Re: Tolerance

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Steve, socaldmax:

I don't think it needs to be a majority; it seems to me that even a small minority of disinhibited people behaving badly has a disproportionately toxic effect on an online community, if they let it.
Oh, absolutely!

I've seen as few as 5 or 6 people just destroy a website with incredible attacks on others. But the point is, let's say out of an entire website, you have 20 who have acted rudely at one time or another. According to this study, out of 6 different reasons for people to act rudely or overly nicely, only 1 of those had to do with people using a different name and feeling that those posts weren't really from them (a ridiculous excuse.)

So assuming a small percentage of rude posters do so because of disinhibition, and an even smaller percentage does it due to not having to use his/her real name, you get down to this subset of posters which might end up being 2 or 3 out of 20. I don't think that's much of a difference. For the other thousand or several thousand posters who are already polite, it won't make any difference at all.

If the owner of this website chooses to make everyone use their real name, I'll gladly go along, it doesn't make any difference to me. I'll still be the same guy, posting the same, sometimes thought provoking questions.
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:04   #175
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Re: Tolerance

I highly recommend this TED talk by Jonathan Haidt as an explanation of intolerance in general. It's rooted in our tribal gene. He speaks on the moral roots of Liberals and Conservatives but it applies to all conflicts that lead to narrow minded intolerance.


http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_ha...the_moral_mind
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:16   #176
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Re: Tolerance

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if that is the case why have the rebel hearts had to go into hiding from the press at a secret location?
I don't see any connection between the press and what was posted in that thread. Whatever is in that thread is there for Eric and Charlotte to read at their leisure. The media are looking for sensationalism. If they take something out of context or misquote someone, that is the media's problem. Easy enough to prove what was really posted.

They didn't HAVE to go into hiding, they CHOSE to go into hiding. They could just have easily have hired a media consultant and ended up on the talk show circuit, lots of people have for a lot less interesting a story.

Look at the Kardashians. Prime example of a talentless family making hundreds of millions off of their celebrity, all garnered by wise use of the media. They're now famous for being famous for no apparent reason. And the money keeps rolling in. As much as I don't pay any attention to the Kardashians, I'd rather Eric, Charlotte and family took their 15 minutes of fame by the horns and got millions instead of the Kardashians.

I don't spend a penny on anything associated with the K family. But I'd buy the RH book, and buy a couple of tickets to go see the movie.
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:17   #177
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by bethflkys View Post
Sailorboy, thanks so much for making my case for me. Of course, I know it's not that hard. However, that you just bragged about doing it, and on a thread about "tolerance", has creeped me out, as you might have guessed it would.
What he did served no purpose but to try to cause a problem. I found it creepy as well that he felt the need to do it and then the need to publicly brag about it. I feel like you're owed an apology.

Sailorboy, can you explain why you felt the need to do that to another forum member?
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:18   #178
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
that was my worry , that speculation/inuendo here could have a direct and real effect on real people in real life in real time.

who also happen to be longtime members,not some annomous name in the papers.

I suspect you over estimate the power of CF, I saw no references positive or negative to CF comments in the general media

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Old 13-04-2014, 19:22   #179
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Re: Tolerance

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I don't see any connection between the press and what was posted in that thread. Whatever is in that thread is there for Eric and Charlotte to read at their leisure. The media are looking for sensationalism. If they take something out of context or misquote someone, that is the media's problem. Easy enough to prove what was really posted.

They didn't HAVE to go into hiding, they CHOSE to go into hiding. They could just have easily have hired a media consultant and ended up on the talk show circuit, lots of people have for a lot less interesting a story.

Look at the Kardashians. Prime example of a talentless family making hundreds of millions off of their celebrity, all garnered by wise use of the media. They're now famous for being famous for no apparent reason. And the money keeps rolling in. As much as I don't pay any attention to the Kardashians, I'd rather Eric, Charlotte and family took their 15 minutes of fame by the horns and got millions instead of the Kardashians.

I don't spend a penny on anything associated with the K family. But I'd buy the RH book, and buy a couple of tickets to go see the movie.
have you no compassion ?see next post
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Old 13-04-2014, 19:23   #180
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Re: Tolerance

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Originally Posted by bethflkys View Post
Sailorboy, thanks so much for making my case for me. Of course, I know it's not that hard. However, that you just bragged about doing it, and on a thread about "tolerance", has creeped me out, as you might have guessed it would.
I would ask him to delete the post and if that fails ask the mods.
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