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Old 25-04-2016, 14:42   #31
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Originally Posted by Captain-Avenger View Post
I really don't understand the increase in percent over the years. The fact that prices have gone up because of inflation gives them more money, so why do they need a second hit with a higher percent? They keep up with inflation by higher prices...does a waitress/server really need to make $200-$250 a night waiting tables? That's more than a starting teacher with a Masters degree makes for Christ sake.

Agreed, but I think it exceedingly unlikely that any but a very few are earning that kind of money.
Kind of like saying it's insane to pay someone millions of dollars for playing a game, but one on a million balls players do, but they are of course one in a million.
Problem as I see it is when people believe that they deserve a tip for doing their job, but that just me I guess, maybe I'm an old man now?
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Old 25-04-2016, 15:10   #32
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Agreed, but I think it exceedingly unlikely that any but a very few are earning that kind of money.
Kind of like saying it's insane to pay someone millions of dollars for playing a game, but one on a million balls players do, but they are of course one in a million.
Problem as I see it is when people believe that they deserve a tip for doing their job, but that just me I guess, maybe I'm an old man now?
Hey, get out of my yard!


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Depends on restaurant. For the Boston area, mid scale restaurant with bar, full time wait help pull in an average of $78,000 per year. Basically as ADLittle said, the average waithelp makes more than the average customer. Again, mid scale(includes hotels, chains, and 60 plus covers twice a night). For upscale like the top of the Pru, 4seasons, etc, the average runs around $135,000 per year(again full time throughout the week).
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Old 25-04-2016, 15:39   #33
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Depends on restaurant. For the Boston area, mid scale restaurant with bar, full time wait help pull in an average of $78,000 per year. Basically as ADLittle said, the average waithelp makes more than the average customer. Again, mid scale(includes hotels, chains, and 60 plus covers twice a night). For upscale like the top of the Pru, 4seasons, etc, the average runs around $135,000 per year(again full time throughout the week).
I am from the Boston area...about 50 miles out in the burbs. I was basing my estimate in the burbs on a $40 tab for 2 people=$8 per table. 5 tables per hour on a 6 hour shift equals 8*5*6=$240/night. 240/n*5n*50wks=$60,000/year. In the city $40 for 2 with drinks is really low balling it. Yeah, big city will make a lot more than the burbs.
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Old 25-04-2016, 15:50   #34
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Well, that seems pretty insulting to me. Not the tipping but the way you put it. A bit like throwing a dog a bone.

Back to the topic, we keep a stack of five dollar bills on the boat for tipping. If someone takes our lines, they get $5. If its two people, generally each gets $5.

In principle, I would like to see the custom of tipping abolished and employees paid what their efforts and skills are worth by the employer. Yes, this would make the cost of dockage go up on paper but it wouldn't actually cost the boater any more.

As for wait staff in restaurants, why is the tip based on the cost of the meal? Is it harder to bring you a steak than a hamburger?

And, who deserves a tip more - The person who takes down your order and brings you food cooked by someone else or the guy who runs down the dock in the wind and rain and fends off and ties up your $200K boat?
That's funny a few is insulting but 5 is not. Why not 10 or 20.

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Old 25-04-2016, 15:51   #35
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

I just want to be clear we are talking about the marina staff that is paid by the hour to work at the marina

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Old 25-04-2016, 15:59   #36
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

In Australia we find it demeaning to be offered tips.
This is a country of equals (mates).
We like to offer a mate a hand and would be offended to be offered a tip in reply.
We don't have a servant culture here and we don't have slaves. Even the Prime Minister would get treated as a mate (if he was friendly).
We do have a like of beer and love to be offered a beer, (but not one handed down). A good drink with a mate (friend) and the chance to reply in kind as the opportunity presents itself is preferred.
In fact many of us feel pity for people who have million dollar boats and million dollar heads. (called the 'tall poppy' syndrome).
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Old 25-04-2016, 16:14   #37
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

Other than stopping at a fuel dock, we don't visit Marinas much. Last was Ocean world in the DR. There were two line handlers whom I slipped each a $5.00 bill to since they helped not only secure the boat, but hooked up our water and shore power as well. Funny part was after tipping them, they asked me for the boat cleaning stuff, and washed down the boat for us. I thanked them and gave them each another 10.00 us. I figured they earned it and appreciated their service. I have nothing but respect for a working person..
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Old 25-04-2016, 19:11   #38
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

TIPS is an acronym for To Insure Proper Service! When I go to my favorite restaurant in town I tip the guy that opens the car door, I tip the guy that seats us, and I always tip 20% of the check to the waiter. Whenever I go out to eat at that restaurant I always have a good time and I always get great service. I spent three months in Paris in 2013 and frequented some of the same restaurants several times, everything I had read about traveling to Paris said you do not have to tip in France. I tipped anyway and somehow whenever I showed up with my family to eat no matter how busy it was they always found a table for us right away. One time we showed up at this Italian restaurant we liked and it was very busy so the manager brought a table up from the basement and put it in the middle of dinning room just for us. I at the moment am between boats but when I had one whenever I docked anywhere be it a yacht club, a marina, a pump out station, or a fuel dock. If someone working for a living helped me with the lines I would always toss them something. Usually a fiver. Believe me anyone who works a job enjoys a bonus, and they will remember you always for the next time you come their way.
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Old 25-04-2016, 20:15   #39
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Evans is right -- tipping is not customary most places, what concerns marine services and things around the dock.

My first winter at Cowes, I ordered a set of new batteries, 8 x 25kg or nearly a quarter of a ton of them. I woke up one morning to find that the young marina guys had humped them down to my boat and were carrying them on board for me. I was amazed and gratified and tried to give them money, but they refused, and I believe they were mildly insulted, as if I were treating them as servants.

I since found out that is just the culture of the place. So instead of tipping, I lend them a hand as often as I can, and I bring back booze from Helgoland when I return from the Baltic, which unlike tips, is gratefully received. The kindnesses they have done for me are impossible to count, and I at least try to show my gratitude for this, every chance I get.

Over time I learned to carry an extra case of good rum or whiskey, to give as presents, as tokens of gratitude, when someone does something particularly nice. A bottle does not have the same master-servant implication that a tip does.


In the U.S., practically no one is ashamed to be paid, any sum, under any circumstances, by anyone. It is different in many other places.
Hi Dockhead, I'm pleased to know they still operate that way in Cowes, a place I left way back in 1957 to emigrate to Canada. You're absolutely correct, that is the culture of 'my' people.
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Old 25-04-2016, 20:32   #40
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

I hate Tipping!
I find it awkward and a terrible way to pay and to get paid, in the Galapagos our boat crew asked for a 10% minimum tip for a 7 day live aboard... errr nope it was overpriced to begin with and the service was shocking it was AUD 1k per day per person so an extra minimum $1400 is a bit of a stinger when we could barely afford the trip in the first place. I get that some places don't get paid well enough by their company, but I feel that issue should be fixed by the company, not the customer. We still tip where we are culturally expected to do so, but the whole process is IMO stupid.

Here is a beaut little economic assessment of tipping and its societal benefits and detractions.

The No-Tipping Point - Freakonomics Freakonomics
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Old 25-04-2016, 20:42   #41
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Originally Posted by noylddot View Post
TIPS is an acronym for To Insure Proper Service! When I go to my favorite restaurant in town I tip the guy that opens the car door, I tip the guy that seats us, and I always tip 20% of the check to the waiter. Whenever I go out to eat at that restaurant I always have a good time and I always get great service. I spent three months in Paris in 2013 and frequented some of the same restaurants several times, everything I had read about traveling to Paris said you do not have to tip in France. I tipped anyway and somehow whenever I showed up with my family to eat no matter how busy it was they always found a table for us right away. One time we showed up at this Italian restaurant we liked and it was very busy so the manager brought a table up from the basement and put it in the middle of dinning room just for us. I at the moment am between boats but when I had one whenever I docked anywhere be it a yacht club, a marina, a pump out station, or a fuel dock. If someone working for a living helped me with the lines I would always toss them something. Usually a fiver. Believe me anyone who works a job enjoys a bonus, and they will remember you always for the next time you come their way.
I like to be remembered for treating folk with respect, just like I would like to be treated myself, and not by how much money I had bribed them with.

Specifically with line handlers. I was brought up cruising in areas where my fellow cruisers would jump to offer assistance without being asked nor expecting anything other than to receive the same courtesy in return as and when the opportunity arises. Not only that but the fellow cruiser is likely to be more knowledgeable as to how best to assist. When we lived on a 47ft 25 ton motor yacht we had one delightful young lady line handler ( sent by the marina not requested) try to hold us instead of just drop the line loop proffered over a dock cleat as I had asked. Yes she did get a monetary tip but a better tip would have been 'do like I asked please because your 100lbs of very shapely tanned flesh cannot stop the momentum of a 25 ton boat from doing just as it wishes'.
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Old 25-04-2016, 21:01   #42
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

Wow. Some of the comments are so off base I have to say I am appalled. Somehow we went from marina tipping for pump outs and line handling to restaurant etiquette. 20% is standard regardless if you order a hamburger or $140.00 steak (think Japanese Wagyu). Federal law in the US now prohibits 'auto-gratuities' although enforcement and culture has not caught on completely yet and now some charge pre-approved 'service charges'. If you can afford to spend $200 on a bottle of wine, you should tip appropriately. We don't make the min. Wage law, but some of us work in restaurants and deliver exceptional products and service and expect to be compensated. The argument of if it 'right' or not should not to be taken out on those working for a living and providing the services. There is always 2 sides to an argument and this one is frustrating as I have made my living and boat kitty serving in restaurants and managing them.


Jason
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Old 25-04-2016, 21:47   #43
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

One of the CF folks who contributed to this one could do a service and create a sailor's guide to tipping. Not enough information yet for completion on a country by country basis, let alone local variants, not to mention the types of service, but it would be a good start for general guidelines. When I first saw the headline, I thought the reference was to line handlers for the Panama Canal or some other similar lock equipped waterway. Not so, but that would be of interest as well.
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Old 25-04-2016, 21:51   #44
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

Crawdaddy, your sense of entitlement is one of the reasons that I prefer living in Oz these days. Tipping in general is a poor way to run an economy, but the idea that a server who brings you a 200 dollar bottle somehow has earned and deserves a bigger tip than one who brings you the house red really bothers me.

And the idea of tipping someone who asks to take your lines when you don't need or want his help is ludicrous to me.

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Old 25-04-2016, 22:07   #45
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Re: Tipping line handlers...What's realistic?

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Originally Posted by crawdaddy282 View Post
Wow. Some of the comments are so off base I have to say I am appalled. Somehow we went from marina tipping for pump outs and line handling to restaurant etiquette. 20% is standard regardless if you order a hamburger or $140.00 steak (think Japanese Wagyu). Federal law in the US now prohibits 'auto-gratuities' although enforcement and culture has not caught on completely yet and now some charge pre-approved 'service charges'. If you can afford to spend $200 on a bottle of wine, you should tip appropriately. We don't make the min. Wage law, but some of us work in restaurants and deliver exceptional products and service and expect to be compensated. The argument of if it 'right' or not should not to be taken out on those working for a living and providing the services. There is always 2 sides to an argument and this one is frustrating as I have made my living and boat kitty serving in restaurants and managing them.


Jason

young man(?),perhaps you should get yourself An education and a better job? Sorry but I CANNOT afford a $200 bottle of wine never mind an extra 20% on top as a gift for you. I suggest you take up your wages with the management. Isn't it illegal not to pay at least minimum wage?
Like you say there are two sides to an argument and I can assure you I will not be selling my boat to fund giving tips for all. It took me 50 years of hard graft to earn my boat.
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