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Old 03-06-2014, 09:07   #136
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
There was an analysis I saw that showed that for the average sailor, not retired, chartering is actually less expensive than owning your own boat and you get more time on the water.

Assume a loan on a 40 to 50 foot boat and a 4 to 6 month sailing season. Add dockage, maintenance, winterizing, lift in and lift out, etc. and the above statement actually makes sense.
And, you have to factor in the ratio of actual sailing time versus "work on the F'ing boat" time (or wait while someone else does). For example, I spent a solid 1.5 months working on my boat to prep it for this cruising season. Plus there are always boat issues to deal with while out cruising.

Unless you are able to cruise full time, or a substantial portion of the year, chartering is not only ultimately less expensive, but a better use of your time. Show up, go sailing, fill out the maintenance check list, go home. Zero work on the boat time.

This is also an aspect of working as a charter captain that I like. I only have to deal with boat issues while the charter is in progess and then only what is necesary to complete the charter. Once I put her back on the dock, and turn over the maintance list, she's not my problem.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:12   #137
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

Hold it, hold it right there....you are starting to sound like my wife!!!
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:41   #138
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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And, you have to factor in the ratio of actual sailing time versus "work on the F'ing boat" time (or wait while someone else does). For example, I spent a solid 1.5 months working on my boat to prep it for this cruising season. Plus there are always boat issues to deal with while out cruising.

Unless you are able to cruise full time, or a substantial portion of the year, chartering is not only ultimately less expensive, but a better use of your time. Show up, go sailing, fill out the maintenance check list, go home. Zero work on the boat time.

This is also an aspect of working as a charter captain that I like. I only have to deal with boat issues while the charter is in progess and then only what is necesary to complete the charter. Once I put her back on the dock, and turn over the maintance list, she's not my problem.
Lot's of good advice from Belize sailor and others regarding charters. I have my own boat but, my gal and I still charter in the off season. I think we have at least 20 charters under our belts in various parts of the world. My companion likes to charter catamarans with Captain and crew. I don't mind at all. I have enough experience sailing and maintaining my own monohull and don't feel the need to learn a new boats system for only a week or two. You also get the advantage of having someone on board (Capt. & crew) with local knowledge of the area and learn about the area from them. I also use the charters to scout out areas that I would like to return to with my boat in the near future and avoid others that were not what I expected them to be.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:12   #139
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

If you're still working and maintaining a shoreside home, and you're trying to justify boat ownership by comparing cost to amount of usage, and ESPECIALLY if you don't enjoy the time spent working on the boat, you may as well hang it up. You'll just drive yourself insane.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:13   #140
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pirate Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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... Bottom line, it simply makes no money sense for us to own a boat right now. We would be hard pressed to spend four weeks a year on the boat and most likely, two weeks would be hard to do. We have land so we could store a boat for nothing but even that does not solve the money per use problem.

Chartering and crewing is what we will do. What we will have to do. Buying a boat right now would just be a complete waste of money, and would slow down, and possibly prevent us, from doing what we really want to do... Dan



This is genuine wisdom sir, and a welcome contrast to all those owners of expensive beauties rotting away in marinas; unused and ultimately unloved maintenance nightmares.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:32   #141
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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Haven't read Mr Treferhen's book, but based on your comments, he shows a lack of in depth knowledge of this subject (charters vs cruisers), or at least a very one dimensional understanding, and I certainly don't agree with his conclusion.
I've never come across a boat on charter and have never chartered a boat myself, but if you read though CF there are lots of posts trashing charter boat people.

But then again it is a fact that we will trash anything and anyone.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:37   #142
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

I guess we're lucky that we actually enjoy working on boats and consider that a rewarding part of the experience. A day spent in the boatyard, just being in the environment, is good therapy. Solving a boat maintenance problem takes our mind off of shoreside worries for awhile. When we're ready to take a break there's the local crab house to have lunch at and always someone interesting around that's ready and willing to strike up a conversation. And then later, when the boat work is done and we're out on the water, there is nothing in the world that matches the feeling of looking around at our ship shape little boat, knowing that all is well with her, and with us, and we did it ourselves. That's boat ownership!!! And it's expensive, but it's also priceless.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:43   #143
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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I've never come across a boat on charter and have never chartered a boat myself, but if you read though CF there are lots of posts trashing charter boat people.

But then again it is a fact that we will trash anything and anyone.
I suspect those threads are mostly trashing the "bare-ly-boaters" with limited experience. While they do represent a significant percentage of the charter market they are not the whole picture.

And, as you point out, no matter what you post here someone is going to tell you you're totally wrong. ;-)
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:47   #144
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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I guess we're lucky that we actually enjoy working on boats and consider that a rewarding part of the experience. A day spent in the boatyard, just being in the environment, is good therapy. Solving a boat maintenance problem takes our mind off of shoreside worries for awhile. .
You are lucky to enjoy that aspect. We don't and wouldn't. We very much admire those of you who do. It's much like those who spend hours on hours in their gardens and get great pleasure from that. We just don't.

It's good we're all different, with different pleasures. And good that there are many different ways to boat and enjoy it.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:59   #145
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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I guess we're lucky that we actually enjoy working on boats and consider that a rewarding part of the experience. A day spent in the boatyard, just being in the environment, is good therapy. Solving a boat maintenance problem takes our mind off of shoreside worries for awhile. When we're ready to take a break there's the local crab house to have lunch at and always someone interesting around that's ready and willing to strike up a conversation. And then later, when the boat work is done and we're out on the water, there is nothing in the world that matches the feeling of looking around at our ship shape little boat, knowing that all is well with her, and with us, and we did it ourselves. That's boat ownership!!! And it's expensive, but it's also priceless.
I enjoy working on boats sometimes. Particularly if its something new to me, like recently installing a whole new windlass system, and I'm learning something. Routine stuff is just an annoyance to me.

I'm spoiled though, for years back in Belize/Guatemala, I've had my own shore crew who I trained to do all the routine stuff. Now that we're in Panama, I'm doing a lot more boat work myself. For example, now getting ready to do fluid/filter changes...first time I've done my own in years...not excited at all about that. Bringing my guys down from Guatemala for a visit has crossed my mind...they know the boat and they do good work...and I can hang out at the local cruisers bar! :-P

I do agree however, that it is gratifying to have the skills to fix almost anything on the boat (even if I'm sometimes cussing as I do it). ;-)
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:08   #146
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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... A day spent in the boatyard, just being in the environment, is good therapy. Solving a boat maintenance problem takes our mind off of shoreside worries for awhile. ...
I also used to use boat time, whether working or sailing, as therapy, but these days my shoreside annoyances are few and thus so is my need for "therapy".
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:31   #147
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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I also used to use boat time, whether working or sailing, as therapy, but these days my shoreside annoyances are few and thus so is my need for "therapy".
But what about your internet annoyance?
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Old 03-06-2014, 13:10   #148
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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But what about your internet annoyance?
I can always just ignore that.

Been sick for a few days so on more than usual. Feeling better now. Tomorrow -- back to boat work!
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Old 03-06-2014, 17:30   #149
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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I've never come across a boat on charter and have never chartered a boat myself, but if you read though CF there are lots of posts trashing charter boat people.

But then again it is a fact that we will trash anything and anyone.

Donald, this is a perfect example of trolling for an argument. Tedsherrin made this same point yesterday but it just does not wash because it is not true: People who know what they're talking about don't get trashed.

Please re-read that first sentence you just posted. You have zero experience, you offer no examples, no documentation ... it's just a rant, Don, ... full of some sound and even less fury... signifying ... wait for it ... nothing.

What's the payoff for you, sir, day after frickin day?
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Old 03-06-2014, 17:50   #150
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Re: This Changing Life... better..? or worse..??

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Donald, this is a perfect example of trolling for an argument. Tedsherrin made this same point yesterday but it just does not wash because it is not true: People who know what they're talking about don't get trashed.

Please re-read that first sentence you just posted. You have zero experience, you offer no examples, no documentation ... it's just a rant, Don, ... full of some sound and even less fury... signifying ... wait for it ... nothing.

What's the payoff for you, sir, day after frickin day?
Gee thanks. You worked pretty hard on that when the point was the cruiser forum threads frequently find ways to trash charters. Heck try reading an anchoring thread without a mention.

I wasn't looking for a debate or argument. Have you been drinking anything special today?

BTW - good job of proving the last sentence of my post that you quoted and your going out of your way to rant about a perceived rant.
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