The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

[ShaktiGurl]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I would suppose that this is not a good idea from a search point of view since they seem to be using statitical methods to select images that are candidates. .

I agree that is probably why they don't provide information on what has been selected, it would bias the results if that is where people concentrated. The way I am, I want to grab the data myself and work it!

In my opinion it is a good idea to work with pictures, but not with satellite images, the pictures are too coarse without clear details. The better way is it, to use an airplane and fly over the area. This pictures are more effective with much more details to identify some object clearly.

The TomNod interface does not allow you to zoom in, so it is difficult to visualize, but this is better than .5m resolution imagery (if it is WV-2 as they say). You cannot cover the same aerial extent in a plane without many passes. While the aerial photo resolution may be better, you trade-off the amount of area covered - it wouldn't be any better than having eyes in the plane searching. Also, cameras mounted on airplanes aren't that simple either. They need tied in GPS and gyroscopes to stabilize the platform and record accurate location data. Full motion video processing is a big job - the images look very distorted until they are geometrically corrected. And it would cover far less extent and cost far more money than getting satellite images.

[psneeld]

Satellite photos can be quite clear down to liferaft sized images...it's just what the government is gonna do for you or who's gonna pay for the civilian imagery.

Aircraft photos for detecting a liferaft in the open sea can be quite coarse...wide angles make super stabilization unnecessary...just reasonable. You are trying to cover enormous amounts of territory...not see who is in the liferaft.

Having spent 20+ years staring at the sea surface on SAR missions...and having helped pioneer gyrostabilized binocs and FLIR....finding targets sometimes gets lost on the tech weenies to get better when rapid accumulation is often the key.

[nova13]

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;1321038]I would suppose that this is not a good idea from a search point of view since they seem to be using statitical methods to select images that are candidates. From a statitical standpoint it is best done using a blind or double blind method. If people know that they are looking at an area that someone else has reported a hit in, they are likely to be bias asnd also report a hit on that image. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. I used to work in the pharmaceutical industry and all of our clinical trials were double blind studies. Neither the doctor nor patient knew if they were getting the test drug or a placebo. That way the results could not be biased. When using crowd sourcing they really need to avoid the bandwagon effect to get meaningul data. end quote

Captain Bill -- When searching tomnod images, I simply mark anomalies that I see. Only then am I made aware that others have marked the same anomaly. There is no bandwagon effect possible at that stage of it.

What amateur crowd resource is doing is searching thousands of pages quickly. Then the experts have a go .... it's marvelous innovation, and considering the options ? It's simply bloody fantastic !!

If I follow your statistical viewpoint, then we should not be using parachutes as they have never been subject to double blind placebo testing. May I refer you to this gem in the British Medical Journal ...

Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related ... - BMJ.com
Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge: systematic review of randomised controlled trials | BMJ

Still hoping against the odds with the families and friends of Nina ...

[nova13]

Originally Posted by jo mc

yes , survival . surviving, .

hi kiwi in the south from one in the north

and this just spotted by someone ... hoping .. from Aug 8 images

http://tomnod.com/nod/challenge/ninarescue2/map/209337

[Captain Bill]

[QUOTE=nova13;1321256]
Captain Bill -- When searching tomnod images, I simply mark anomalies that I see. Only then am I made aware that others have marked the same anomaly. There is no bandwagon effect possible at that stage of it.

QUOTE]
Exactly my point if you knew before hand that others had maked that page it would not have been a blinded study and your input could have been biased. The statement I was commenting on was someone complaining that Tomrod was not telling them where to look and what others had seen before they looked. My position was that this would have biased the results. Sorry if I confused you.

[westernspirit]

Hi Capt'n, Have been spending quite a bit of time on Tomnod images last few days, on the Facebook pages there is quite a bit of posting and sharing images/maps of what people have seen. Some of these do seem to be just breaking wave/spindrift or pixels but clearly some of the things being pointed out are angular and or bright colors (red/orange) and obviously are "something". By sharing these images they are getting many additional tags probably messing up their algorithm. The process depends on crowd sourcing and seems like everybody participating truly wants to help but humans being humans we like to share in the experience and the excitement of finding something certainly increases participation. I don't see a lot of "mass hysteria" response to images that are questionable. We all know there is a lot afloat in the ocean but some of the recent "finds" deserve a fly-over.

[nova13]

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;1321279]

Originally Posted by nova13

Captain Bill -- When searching tomnod images, I simply mark anomalies that I see. Only then am I made aware that others have marked the same anomaly. There is no bandwagon effect possible at that stage of it.

QUOTE]
Exactly my point if you knew before hand that others had maked that page it would not have been a blinded study and your input could have been biased. The statement I was commenting on was someone complaining that Tomrod was not telling them where to look and what others had seen before they looked. My position was that this would have biased the results. Sorry if I confused you.

no probs ... thx cap'n bill.

[RUAH]

We sailed from Brisbane to Opua in march 2012 on a 1954 23 meter wooden schooner.
I installed a hydrostatic release EPIRB (plus a standard one in our grab bag) in the event that we went down fast or forgot the grab bag in the moment of panic. We did daily radio Schedules and my wife monitored us by Delorme inReach but during a 4 day blow I forgot to make sure the GPS monitoring system was running ( AA batteries went flat ) causing my wife to contact Coast Guard. Result was my wife spent 6 hours of worry and when I got it up and running again I spent a couple of hours smarting from a very angry message from my wife, and Coast Guard a few hours wasted trying to contact us.
Technology has its pros and cons but its far better than a message in a bottle, and we need to be mindful of those we leave ashore who worry for us as we wonder around our amazing world.

But let not fear stop us from living.

I truly hope they are still alive and wish the family peace of mind soon.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by ShaktiGurl

My guess is that they are only going to provide it to those entities and not the general public.

Thanks for that.
It sounds like they will provide the information for free to suitable parties.

It would be nice if the the hot spots were available say to crusing yachtsmen departing, or arriving in NZ, or Austrailia.

[nova13]

drifting across the Tasman and Pacific .. other ocean dances ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[nova13]

and how Iridium didn't help:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[nova13]

more on Iridium problem ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

nb: I am just sharing these from facebook .. offering no amateur opinion, simply sharing ...

[Friend of Nina]

I regret to tell everyone that the Schooner Nina thread has been shut down for abuse of CF policies..ie. asking for donations even when warned numerous times not too. This is the last thread regarding Schooner Nina on CF.

I'm hoping that if we keep this last thread open will remind people that Nina is still out and if anyone sees her beached or wreckage can know we are still looking. Any bit of information can continue hope or closure.

My family thanks all of you for your help since Nina got lost in June.
Cherie

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by nova13

more on Iridium problem ...

nb: I am just sharing these from facebook .. offering no amateur opinion, simply sharing ...

This is not the bash Iridium thread. The family could have gotten a court order to release the records of the relevant phone account. So far as I know they never tried that. Iridium and all phone providers have to follow privacy rules which vary from country to country. A court order is the way to slice the red tape. They do not take a long time but an attorney is required.

Satellite phones are not a SAR tool. That's what an EPIRB is for and Nina has one. In my opinion none of this is a problem with Iridium and neither is it their fault.

P.S. you did make an opinion known with the first words of this post.

[Friend of Nina]

I suggest going to the TomNod website and checking in there. Probably more accurate than word of mouth.

Cherie

PS that's why they always say don't burn your bridges! Oh how true:--))