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Old 21-07-2013, 12:14   #106
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Originally Posted by bill352 View Post

OK, I'll say it -

Mark, that is despicable. I can only assume it is the result of PWI, which explains but does not excuse it.

At least try to maintain the standards of common decency.
Agreed.
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Old 21-07-2013, 12:36   #107
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I don't consider my now dead friends or family members to have "passed", I consider them to have died and their bodies have been disposed of in the normal manner (burial / cremation).

Am I being insensitive by using this language and perhaps should re-eduate myself to use "passed"?
I agree that my now dead friends have died; if they have passed is uncertain and up to personal beliefs etc. I don't think there is a problem with the "dead" word. But you continue with "their bodies have been disposed of" and that is the part you need to work on imho. And being Dutch, I am much more direct than most so not overly sensitive. I would say "they have been buried or cremated". The language you use is that of killing squads discussing what to do with all the bodies...

On AIS: it is line of sight but that includes satellite. AIS info from anywhere on the oceans is being recorded and available, though not for free.

Don't forget that gadgets don't stop a boat from sinking; I would never buy AIS for anything else than navigation. What you need is a PLB. If any member would have had one, they might all have been found. A McMurdo PLB is very small and costs $250.- Clip it on your vest or harness and you have a means to alert and guide SAR to you for rescue; even when you go overboard, get seperated from the rest etc.

We are with just us two aboard Jedi and I already had decided not to renew the EPIRB battery; instead we are buying one McMurdo Fastfind 220 PLB and one DeLorme InReach SE. Cost of both $550. The InReach costs $100/year but then you have two-way communication with SAR which is pretty neat.
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Old 21-07-2013, 12:41   #108
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

DOJ

"I have now qualified for the MarkJ award for doom and gloom "

Yes, but you posted it here not on the original Nina thread, with explanation for your reasoning, and it was not a diatribe.

The more time passes, the more concerned those who still hold out hope become. It seems to me that some posters want everyone to be on their own schedule for processing emotions. Not too realistic, IMO.

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Old 21-07-2013, 13:04   #109
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So ais is not a satellite position device unless you have added gear and cost., or ais has sat position because sats track the VHF signal? Still confused but am dumb ass. Otherwise not sure was the boat glassed and why? Any real data or is it just guess and guess again., nina had epirb was it updated? had lufe raft was it updated? who glassed the boat what was going on? someone has these answers so unless they can tell us forget about it lets discuss how we define post life . Good god.
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:07   #110
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Though not often...even well maintained wooden boats pop planks from a quicker than normal failure of fasteners...as far as I know the only way t tell is regular (at least yearly) is ulling fasteners at random and see if there is a problem.

Most owners and commercial guys hate this due to the time and expense. The USCG found out the hard way (got it's butt sued) that NOT demanding a rigorous inspection of wooden planked boats is a mistake.

Now in this case the fiberglass covering...well...unless someone knows what was done and how it was holding up...a fiberglass covering over a planked boat can be like an eggshell around the chick...all it takes is one little peck from the inside and the process of destruction begins.

While not all bad...wooden boats have the reputation they have now from severeal generations of owners that really don't know much about them....despite what people think those salty cappys know.
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:10   #111
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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
So ais is not a satellite position device unless you have added gear and cost., or ais has sat position because sats track the VHF signal? Still confused but am dumb ass. Otherwise not sure was the boat glassed and why? Any real data or is it just guess and guess again., nina had epirb was it updated? had lufe raft was it updated? who glassed the boat what was going on? someone has these answers so unless they can tell us forget about it lets discuss how we define post life . Good god.
The satellites track every regular ais transponder.Big Brother.
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:14   #112
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

I'm not sure what's REALLY available but it has been talked about for years....

First hit...

Google Satellite - Marine Traffic, Fleet Management, Vessel Tracking | Uncategorised

In that case, it is the marine Automatic Identification System, better known as AIS, which is a system of mounted transponders in all lawful seagoing ships that periodically send their position to evade collisions even when the crew members can not physically look at each other due to darkness or heavy weather.
The signals from the Automatic Identification System are only projected to be detectable up to 19 n.m. away, but scientists that are led by the University of the Aegean, Greece have developed larger, land-based aerial which may pick up the signal over greater distances – but it still only picks up ships comparatively near to the coast.
From above, however, the 2 satellites which Google is currently using might detect vessels everywhere on the ocean. Google already works with governments worldwide and helps them with tracking of fishing boats poaching in their unique economic areas and is planning to make the information accessible to approximately billion users of Google Maps – one of their amazing and very useful products.

Ship AIS Tracking Via Satellite | gCaptain



Norway is not the first country to develop satellite based ship information and tracking. The Coast Guard has been studying the feasibility of receiving maritime automatic identification system (AIS) signals from space since 2001. In May 2004 the Coast Guard contracted with ORBCOMM, a satellite data communications company, to develop and build the capability to receive process and forward AIS signals from space via an AIS receiver onboard a communications satellite. In addition, ORBCOMM will provide the ground systems capable of processing the AIS signals and relaying the collected messages to the Coast Guard. The USCG also says:
This line of sight system was originally designed as a collision avoidance tool, but Coast Guard engineers and scientists quickly realized that significant ship tracking capabilities could be accomplished far out to sea if a receiver were placed on a spacecraft.
Studies conducted at Johns Hopkins University in 2003 indicated this concept was feasible, but it was not proven until a Dec. 16, 2006, launch by the Department of Defense of the TACSAT-2 satellite, which was equipped with an automatic identification receiver.
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:15   #113
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Was Nina glassed? If yes why? What was the layup? Seems like we could get to the bottom of this. Part
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:18   #114
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
While not all bad...wooden boats have the reputation they have now from severeal generations of owners that really don't know much about them....despite what people think those salty cappys know.
And to be fair to the owner / skipper of the Nina on this voyage, may well be (IMO almost a certainty) that over 80 years previous owners or their yard workers would have done repairs and modifications that were less than ideal, or at least turned out that way over the passage of time even if done for well intended purposes rather than for cost / ease reasons.......a well maintained wooden boat eventually ends up pretty much like Trigger's Broom (all original - apart from 5 new heads, and 3 new handles , I am sure the US has it's own version of that ).

Which is why the mainstream of recreational boats are now fibreglass.
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:23   #115
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Psneed shows that 2 sats might pickup ais coverage and Jedi thinks everything is found. Which is not an answer really. Can standard VHF ais be detected world wide. Progress for me understanding this technology thanks Jedi and psneed.
Next was the boat glassed and who did the work?
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Old 21-07-2013, 13:50   #116
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

It was reported that the boat was glassed, not by whom.
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Old 21-07-2013, 14:21   #117
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I would really like some good information on the equipment and mntc of Nina . Better then just prudent skipper. Was the boat glassed over. This would be a big expense and if done someone knows this occurred. Why was the hull glassed? Was the life raft up to date? Was the engine installed to spec? What really was on the boat?All my gear has registered numbers. Not hard for sar to get a hold of what was aboard. AIS is not advertised as a global system. This as most posts suggests works at about 100 miles best case . If its better then we should know that ais has global coverage? All this information should be up front then we can learn or look more. Speculation adds nothing but not getting good info out is negligent. Seems Luke no one us focused on good data.
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Old 21-07-2013, 14:33   #118
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Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

Sabray,

Much of this has been posted in earlier posts. DOJ recapped it a couple of times. It's quite a long read, but informative.

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Old 21-07-2013, 14:42   #119
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Unless the boat is found, there is not much value to know how it was glassed,
it would just be another guess what caused it to sink.

As I recall, we do know for a fact the weather was bad for quite some time, giving the boat a pounding. It is entirely possible that without warning some big wave hit it, broke it up, and it sank within minutes. That happens, some have survived to tell the story, most do not.
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Old 21-07-2013, 14:47   #120
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Yes glassed over 15 yrs ago. New eng to spec. Life raft couple years old. Boat seaworthy. 2 crossings Atlantic. Mystic seaport work done 5 years ago. Sailed down to Panama thru Canal to French Polynesia then to NZ. Think had what it takes. Kept boat up.

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