Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 3.67 average. Display Modes
Old 14-07-2013, 14:12   #76
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I'm not sure the speculation is useful. IMHO Nina is on the bottom, like any a boat before her.

If here Epirb wasn't float free , there are many situations where the boat is over whelmed so fast that none gets to activate it. It could easily ha e been that the skipper overestimated his ability and that of his boat and persisted too long until it was too late.

Dave
And so WHY do you have to add the last part, accusing the skipper of overestimating? WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE?
NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE. Does it make you feel superior to say it?
Sorry, but he is likely dead and can't defend himself, so I will for him.
__________________

__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline  
Old 14-07-2013, 14:26   #77
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post

And so WHY do you have to add the last part, accusing the skipper of overestimating? WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE?
NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE. Does it make you feel superior to say it?
Sorry, but he is likely dead and can't defend himself, so I will for him.
I say it because its a common feature of skippers and boat owners that they tend to invest ( quite rightly ) in having " faith in the boat " or faith in their skills, however this often leads to a reluctance to call for help or to accept a situation may not be survivable. The documented issues with the boat also suggest a general " derring do " attitude that can sometimes lead to overestimation of success.

Furthermore given the reasonable equipment level on board ( unlike the boat In the Atlantic ) , and epirb failures are very rare , all this points to sailing into a set of circumstances that were either beyond the vessels or the skippers abilities

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline  
Old 14-07-2013, 15:10   #78
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
And so WHY do you have to add the last part, accusing the skipper of overestimating? WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE?
NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE. Does it make you feel superior to say it?
Sorry, but he is likely dead and can't defend himself, so I will for him.
I think it both worth suggesting as a possible scenario (as a caution for others) and also is a reasonable supposition, given the evidence. Indeed, the limited evidence being the main evidence - a Sherlock Holmes / dog that didn't bark thing.
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 14-07-2013, 15:13   #79
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
accusing the skipper of overestimating? WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE?
NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE. .

Well, if you look at what the family and friends say he was a skipper of strong personality and strong personal courage. In an earlier post I mentioned it as a similarity to the Bounty sinking. I was not insinuating anything more, however I believe its well within the gambit to look at causes of late sailing boats, or boats sailing into bad weather, or once in bad weather, their choices. The crew on board sometimes can not make a decision thats far enough removed from the strong personality of the skipper, or other main-stays of the crew.

Why is it important to bring up in a thread like this? Because we, as skippers, must be cognisant when we book crew for a passage to give them information, time, and options of second opinions before we say: "Common, of course we will be fine, you whimp, its a good boat and we will prevail".

And to crew looking for a boat to go on a passage, you must use your own brain to work out the risks involved. You must check the weather yourself, you must know the correct sailing season yourself - not rely on someone else to tell you.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline  
Old 14-07-2013, 15:53   #80
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 584
The official Nina thread has gone way off course and certainly should not be in the Navigation section of the forum, but the mods have decided to leave it alone. I guess that it will go on for a very long time

Now, there is no such thing as a " big red button ". In fact the buttons on the SSB and the EPIRB are not al that easy at all. The 802 SSB needs to be held down for several seconds and then it only transmits on one freq. you can send out a multiple freq. distress, but that takes a programming sequence. The EPIRB needs a little instruction as to how to operate.
My point being that a roll over or loosing a keel probably would make it very hard to push any button in the event. However, the use of AIS would have provided excellent tracking and a good " last known position"
Bazzer
__________________
bazzer is offline  
Old 14-07-2013, 20:13   #81
Registered User
 
Khagan1227's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Boat: In the hunt again, unknown
Posts: 1,330
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
In the US maybe , but elsewhere , rescue does not mean the boat has to be abandoned

Dave
It really depends on WHO is doing the rescuing. If a merchant ship arrives on scene, either you get on his vessel and abandon ship, or he leaves you behind.

One rescue I was involved in, the merch ship wouldn't even take the crews bags off the yacht. We arrived on scene 2 hours after the crew left and their dunnage was still in the cockpit. The skipper of the yacht was doing an Atlantic crossing and was the only person (of five) on the boat who could sail. He broke his leg during the storm. The storm had abated quite a bit before we got there and we took the boat in tow.

The U.S. Coast Guard and U.S. Navy MAY attempt a tow, but it is the call of the Captain.

Based on the weather in the case of the Nina, I doubt many would risk their vessel.
Khagan1227 is offline  
Old 20-07-2013, 23:44   #82
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naamah View Post
I fully appreciate it is tough but to refer to any one lost or lost completely as a body to me is insensitive. A body is nearly always someone else's "somebody". ................ I would love them and niña to return to port.

This thread is getting ridiculous! How is it a family and friends have taken over a forum blindly trying to compel a reasoning thats far removed from reality?

Families must look at the facts and stop wasting money that can be spent on the education of children than casting to the winds on dead adults.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 00:37   #83
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,811
Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
This thread is getting ridiculous! How is it a family and friends have taken over a forum blindly trying to compel a reasoning thats far removed from reality?

Families must look at the facts and stop wasting money that can be spent on the education of children than casting to the winds on dead adults.
Mark, what on earth has gotten into you?

Although odds are now diminishing, we have no proof that the crew has not survived. It is still not impossible.

Although relatives do not have the right to ask for threads to be censored (even when a sister of the missing skipper has opened the thread), there have been numerous requests to stop posting nasty remarks on this thread. DOJ has even opened a new thread so that anyone can air their views there. It is only common decency to abide by these requests by anxious loved ones.

And as for criticising where people waste their money, I don't think those of us who have chosen to spend our money on yachts rather than other kid's educations have any right to comment on others spending their funds on donations or searches!
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 01:15   #84
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
If it was my child lost at sea I would spend anything i could to find the truth. So would any other parent, it is unconscionable to suggest otherwise.
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 01:21   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: sydney, australia
Boat: 38 roberts ketch
Posts: 1,021
Images: 3
Re: Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

yeah, look there's plenty of room on here for the family and friends to keep this channel of communication open and we should all be generous enough to show some respect for the suffering all the loved ones of the people on the Nina must be enduring. I still hope they are still out there and will survive and return. if you have some other barrow to push, this is not the appropriate thread. I wont be responding to any arguments put forward here about this so dont waste your time.
__________________
charliehows is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 02:42   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Lyle Hess 32
Posts: 38
Two things to say:

I doubt that anyone knows better than the friends and relatives how slim the thread is for their friends and family. It is gratuitous for us to keep stating the obvious.

It is the "job" of friends and relatives to keep hope alive, to pursue every avenue to its end, when others have ceased to hope or try.

It would be a woeful world if it were otherwise.
__________________
Pelorus32 is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 05:01   #87
Registered User
 
Friend of Nina's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 211
Mark this thread was started by family and friends. We haven't taken over CF. this is the only thread Nina uses. CF has tons of other threads you might be interested in or start your own thread. We are trying to keep just one thread.

Cherie
__________________
Friend of Nina is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 05:48   #88
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Possible thread drift but as this is wide ranging thread loosely about Nina, I will push on .

There has recently been a bit of hoo-ah on the nice Nina thread about using the term "bodies" when referring to a potentially deceased person with one poster clearly preferring the use of "passed"; considering the term "bodies" as insensitive. I have no beef whatever term he/she prefers to use and I can understand they might some terms offensive whereas I don't.

That said, personally I find using the word "passed" to denote death is just crazy. Am I the weird one or do others find it OK to use "died", "death", "body", "deceased" etc and consider it to be part of normal language. I don't consider my now dead friends or family members to have "passed", I consider them to have died and their bodies have been disposed of in the normal manner (burial / cremation).

Am I being insensitive by using this language and perhaps should re-eduate myself to use "passed"?
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 05:50   #89
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

passed, as in from this life to the next. seeing as how 99% of the population believes in an afterlife it is appropriate.
__________________
scoobert is offline  
Old 21-07-2013, 06:01   #90
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
passed, as in from this life to the next. seeing as how 99% of the population believes in an afterlife it is appropriate.
Hmm...not sure about the 99% bit not this is not the place to debate that question .
Perhaps I am living more in the here and now and the people I knew who have died aren't living in "my here and now"; that is not to say I don't remember them or honour their lives but (for me) to say they have passed seems wishy-washy and somehow negates the importance of their death.

Perhaps this really isn't relevant but it is the thoughts in my head as I consider the plight of the Nina crew.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
My Bucket is, superior to

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.