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Old 24-08-2013, 00:22   #316
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Although I did give the TOMNOD thing a go, I did so only as a guest - as to login they wanted my e-mail address (fair enuf) and the password for it (WTF??!)........adding in that no lat & long references on the bits of ocean shown (nor any date) and I do have concerns. Of course could simply be incompetence..........

Certainly I would have expected that the EXACT position (and date) of a potential life raft sighting to have been widely reported - if not for any SAR airsearch for other vessels in the area.

In regard to the Texas Republican Senator - obviously he is firmly on the something should be done trail, by somebody else.......but in international waters the responsibility as much for the USA as anyone else to do a SAR, especially as a US boat / Captain / Crew....and they ain't exactly short of stuff.
re the WTF password you mention, I'm pretty certain they didn't want your email password. They were asking you to register with your email and create a site-specific password. That's what happened for me anyway about ten days ago..
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Old 24-08-2013, 00:28   #317
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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Link did not work for me , but I will take your word for it - albeit with the caveat that I doubt NZ SAR folks have any claim (or desire!) for exclusivity.........I am presuming of course that we are talking outside NZ Territorial Waters, albeit for all I know the discussion is about something orange in the Bay of Islands - or in Lake Taupo? .
There is so much information on various Facebook pages .. not hidden. I can't post links as pieces of the pages are asking for donations. Maybe your critique is a bit harsh considering maybe you don't go looking for the info that is published, and accept that it may not be in exactly the format you personally expect.

Folks are doing their best in a bloody awful situation. Yes, it's against all the odds, everyone knows that. It's not delusional, but last efforts are being made and I can only support and wish them well.
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Old 24-08-2013, 00:34   #318
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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NZ SAR do not seem to have gone wrong in their first search. And, even if this were the case, why would they make another mistake having learned from the apparent first one?

And is it not strange that there is an apparent "crowd sourced" 'rescue action' going on while the crowd has no free access to relevant information?

barnakiel
There is free access to lots of info but I can't post links here as the pages on facebook contain requests for donations ... everyday full details of the tomnod findings and flight search patterns with coordinates have been posted .. I have seen them myself. Search Facebook ( if you want to) for Nina and Bringing Her Home. It may not be to your standards, but I feel like I have known exactly where they have been searching and for what they have been searching all of this week. I do not think it is as hidden as suggested here. Have a look ... and still hoping. Thx.
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Old 24-08-2013, 01:09   #319
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

This has been posted today by Larry Slack, who is coordinating for the families ( I think):

"Important message from Larry Slack:
Team,
Thanks so much for your hard work reviewing Tomnod maps and searching for the Nina. Wanted to briefly share what your efforts generate. Below is a Google Earth map and overlaid are the Tomnod tags you provided. We have a definite grouping of tags west of Norfolk Island. Obviously there is something in this area; therefore, we take this information and incorporate it into our aerial search plans and this area is over flown by our search aircraft, and hopefully the Nina or her life raft is spotted. Note that we do have to figure in “drift information,” meaning this is where the target was on a specific date – now where is it today? But the bottom line is, it is your work that leads us to these search areas.

Tomnod just posted a new map so happy searching on this one.

This image was posted with it:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

My amateur understanding of tomnod is that their computers' algorithms give out the satellite pages, tiled, with no coordinates. The various sightings of whatever things appear are then aggregated. I sit and am happy to explore blank ocean, in the hope of helping. The new pages posted today by tomnod have some big seas in them. No-one is making me pay or say anything. It is entirely my choice to do it, and it is very interesting technology, imho. Honestly, how else can you have about 6000-8000 people searching an ocean ? Not perfect, but a darn sight better than nothing.

Still hoping ...
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Old 24-08-2013, 01:44   #320
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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Can anyone explain how TOMNOD works?
Not really, but here is Luke Barrington at TED with some background informations of his startup company... perhaps it helps...

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Old 24-08-2013, 01:48   #321
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

hi basher's
ive read nearly all the threads on both nina pages, with much interest to myself, and i have been recently been searching on tomnod { last 10 days } , and, following updates on both nina's fb pages. I live in the very top north west of the south island of NZ, just below farewell spit.. I have read 10 degrees of reckoning, and the rose noelle story, and hewit's , and I followed jessica watson's blog as she sailed, and now i'm here.
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Old 24-08-2013, 02:11   #322
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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Not really, but here is Luke Barrington at TED with some background informations of his startup company... perhaps it helps..
Thanks for the link, but no it does not answer any of my questions.
The video explains how the data is processed by the volunteers on line, but that part of the equation is obvious.

It does not explain what happens to to data. The company flags the areas the volunteers have consistently identified. What happens to this collated information is it freely available? Is there a cost?
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Old 24-08-2013, 02:33   #323
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

Tomnod

small pale orange circle about 1 inch from top, 2.5 inches in from right hand margin. check the scale .. it 's close to the size of the life raft. these are new tomnod images posted this evening and already three others have marked this also.
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Old 24-08-2013, 03:21   #324
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

this is why I keep searching .. have a look at this tomnod page via the link and the enlargement below .... so like the main image seen last week ...

https://m.facebook.com/groups/337129...user=702756382

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Old 24-08-2013, 03:45   #325
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Wink Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

yes , survival . surviving, .
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Old 24-08-2013, 04:07   #326
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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post

Thanks for the link, but no it does not answer any of my questions.
The video explains how the data is processed by the volunteers on line, but that part of the equation is obvious.

It does not explain what happens to to data. The company flags the areas the volunteers have consistently identified. What happens to this collated information is it freely available? Is there a cost?
TomNod is sending the collected points of interest directly to the search services. Most information related to what was found seems to be posted on the FaceBook page. A message from Luke Barrington: "Every click on Tomnod is saved with a lat lon. We run our CrowdRank algorithm to identify areas of crowd consensus and we're shipping results to the search teams every day."

My guess is that they are only going to provide it to those entities and not the general public. Not because of any cost but because when you provide information to large groups of people you get 10x the number of people questioning what you are doing which can increase confusion. Also lots of people may not know what to do with the raw data, come to ill conceived conclusions, etc. There can also be some very restrictive export controls regarding providing information from satellite imagery to an (unknown) international community. This is getting to be a very large PITA for my company and no doubt for DG.
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Old 24-08-2013, 04:28   #327
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For those that are interested. When items are tagged on TomNod. If a lot are tagged are passed on to the family and also RCCNZ is still involved and decide for a further look.
Cherie
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Old 24-08-2013, 05:52   #328
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For those that are interested. When items are tagged on TomNod. If a lot are tagged are passed on to the family and also RCCNZ is still involved and decide for a further look.
Cherie
Cherie

Is it possible to pass on the point locations to this forum? I think a lot of people are interested what to look for and where they are seeing it.

Ty! - mari
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Old 24-08-2013, 06:07   #329
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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Cherie

Is it possible to pass on the point locations to this forum? I think a lot of people are interested what to look for and where they are seeing it.

Ty! - mari
I would suppose that this is not a good idea from a search point of view since they seem to be using statitical methods to select images that are candidates. From a statitical standpoint it is best done using a blind or double blind method. If people know that they are looking at an area that someone else has reported a hit in, they are likely to be bias asnd also report a hit on that image. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. I used to work in the pharmaceutical industry and all of our clinical trials were double blind studies. Neither the doctor nor patient knew if they were getting the test drug or a placebo. That way the results could not be biased. When using crowd sourcing they really need to avoid the bandwagon effect to get meaningul data.

Clearly for those of us fllowing the Nina saga we would like to know, but it's probably better for the crew of Nina that we don't.
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Old 24-08-2013, 06:19   #330
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Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

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I would suppose that this is not a good idea from a search point of view since they seem to be using statitical methods to select images that are candidates. From a statitical standpoint it is best done using a blind or double blind method.
Thanks..

In my opinion it is a good idea to work with pictures, but not with satellite images, the pictures are too coarse without clear details. The better way is it, to use an airplane and fly over the area. This pictures are more effective with much more details to identify some object clearly.

Finally. Identification of details on images need high-resolution displays and a good training of the personnel, if you want to have real success. i think tomnod is with Digital Globe on the right way to change something. It's in the beginning.. perhaps an alpha release...
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