The morality of interactions with the locals

[Pelagic]

Morality is such a subjective term that I always feel awkward trying to apply it to groups.
What I have observed in my travels is that "local" people with some wealth take far more advantage of their poor compatriots, than do visitors.
They are far more harsh in their criticisms of the poor asking for handouts and in desperate countries with severe social issues, their security forces and methods are very harsh.

Living in the Philippines for about 17 years, I have learned to be selective in my generosity and to never stand up on a stage with local politicians

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by tarian

Your all seeing eye is working strong and the force is with you, come on statements like that make you look silly , this is a debate without any mudslinging dont start now.

If the shoe fits wear it.

[wrwakefield]

Sometimes we never discover if those we interact with are truly representative of a culture.

A broad example: Its been my experience individuals residing in large cities or seaboard communities are not necessarily representative of the whole; but they are representative of their locale.

Traveling further inland usually verifies this premise for me.

The same applies when partaking of preplanned routes/activities intended for tourists— vs. not.

And sometimes too much foreknowledge hinders objectivity when traveling. [But who wants to arrive totally uninformed...?] This is a bit different for cruisers, who will be passing additional places to visit on their journey. [Compared to those selecting a location to fly into— missing everything along the way...]

As already mentioned in a variety of ways, genuine openess, friendliness and respect yield the highest quality moments for everyone.

I believe 'Leave only footprints; take only memories' applies here more than ever...

Cheers! Bill

[Exile]

When the intent is a desire for the good faith trade of goods & services, or an altruistic motivation to help others on an individual basis, then it's all good. But when it's motivated by some sort of personal guilt -- usually based on the actual & perceived sins of forebears as a group -- then it becomes a selfish motivation that can never be satisfied and yes, can come across as moral superiority and thus disrespectful.

It would be healthier for all concerned if we could acknowledge and learn about exploitative & oppressive periods in history from the perspective of our modern times, and not through the artificial lens of Rudyard Kipling in 1899. Otherwise it's a futile effort to make ourselves feel better about ourselves at the expense of others. IOW, the opposite of altruism despite (often) sincerely held intentions.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tarian

With Respect these versus were written in the late 19th Century to early 20th , we as a population and humanity has moved on , and the fact that we need a thread to get our moral conscious out and let the world know how good people we are is laughable.
Just be nice to your fellow Human , no matter what wealth , color of Skin , or Religious beliefs, the fact that people need to talk about their own moral compass , means that they are trying to be nice, just be normal, they are after all human as well and you will find a natural balance will happen quite easily as they are not awed by your wealth. As said before wealth is relative.

I guess you dont recognise 19th century sarcasm..

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Just remember the Prime Directive....

Be sure to NOT leave your communicator behind lest they someday demand a piece of the action!

[waterman46]

I don't know awhat the problem is. Has the OP been cheating the locals? They are very smart about extracting our money when they trade. We always give 10 times more value than we get in these trades. We take little trinkets or half rotten fruit in return for valuable and much needed batteries or new T shirts. And the locals are asking us to do these trades, nobody forces them. We dont feel guilty about being relatively wealthy, since if could afford to stay at any marinas in their country we would be surrounded by hundreds of big yachts each worth 10 times ours.

[boatman61]

Funny enough I have never been asked to 'trade' in the S Pacific bar one occasion a few hundred miles W of the Galapagos when an open dory net minder roared up and asked if I would trade a couple of beers and a pack of smokes for a young swordfish..
I gave him the beers and smokes but skipped the fish..
Dont eat mercury...
.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

So is it morally right for us in the first world to decide for these people that they should continue to live at subsistence level, with the attendant short lifespan, infant mortality, disease, poor nutrition, etc, etc.... just because we like visiting (but wouldn't want to live there) different cultures?

I dunno mate, most of the Pacific islanders are saddened by our 40+ hour workweeks, 2 weeks vacation, separation from family, and packaged food. They very kindly tell me I can keep it, they'll stick to their way.


I once asked a guy in Belize how the heck he cares for a new baby. He said "I grow some more corn, I catch a few more fish. Not like you, stuck in the squalid city scrambling for money."



Of course they are envious of your outboard! And I'm envious of those who know nothing about sailing but have a cool $750,000 to spend on a new catamaran! Would I trade my experiences, my lifestyle, my lack of money for theirs? No way.


I've been "lucky" to be accepted into many cultures. Maybe because I jump into theirs as fast as possible. I eat their food and offer mine. I share what I can. I try to speak their language.


Yes, there are terrible places, and a visiting yacht is seen as the scum of the rich, the opulent, those that made their money on the backs of the suffering. The level of distrust is probably never to be overcome. But by and large, a properly respectful visitor determines their own response.

[P3sailor]

Jammer, in order to answer your question you really don't have to look too far to witness the effect the wealthy have on any area. Bayfield, Wisconsin is one. What was a sleepy little fishing village on the shores of Lake Superior is now a vacation villa, complete with high-end vacation homes owned mainly by folks from Minneapolis, thus making it too expensive to live by many locals. Another, that comes to mind is, Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I've spoken with many locals that can't afford to live there, any longer. I'm sure everyone, visiting this sight, could probably name a few areas that have experienced similar events. It's not just a third world problem!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I dunno mate, most of the Pacific islanders are saddened by our 40+ hour workweeks, 2 weeks vacation, separation from family, and packaged food. They very kindly tell me I can keep it, they'll stick to their way.


I once asked a guy in Belize how the heck he cares for a new baby. He said "I grow some more corn, I catch a few more fish. Not like you, stuck in the squalid city scrambling for money."



Of course they are envious of your outboard! And I'm envious of those who know nothing about sailing but have a cool $750,000 to spend on a new catamaran! Would I trade my experiences, my lifestyle, my lack of money for theirs? No way.


I've been "lucky" to be accepted into many cultures. Maybe because I jump into theirs as fast as possible. I eat their food and offer mine. I share what I can. I try to speak their language.


Yes, there are terrible places, and a visiting yacht is seen as the scum of the rich, the opulent, those that made their money on the backs of the suffering. The level of distrust is probably never to be overcome. But by and large, a properly respectful visitor determines their own response.

[swisssailoralex]

I'm in Cape Verde, Africa. Islands off the coast of Senegal. I rapidly interacted with the locals. One which fixed my outboard motor for about $100, while in the Canaries and in Europe everyone told me to just get a new motor.

Since I've developed a wonderful friendship and many more. I actually take the time to know the people of the places I sail to. Been in Cape Verde 5 months.
[/URL]
The best way to illustrate this is through film and video and see for yourselves:
[URL="https://youtu.be/jAMqF17Lzzw"]

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by tarian

With Respect these versus were written in the late 19th Century to early 20th , we as a population and humanity has moved on ,

Not really.

We have been to many parts of the world that were very laid back and weren't that interesting to the west but over the years have been seen as a source of cheap labour for western factories and then, because the locals have money someone to push Marlborough, coca cola, starbucks and McDonalds onto and then flood with over the counter Valium and every other pharmaceutical known to man and of course, everything supplied in plastic bags.

Go out of the cities and it all goes back to a far simpler existence and faces seem much happier even though to the western eyes, they had little.

[Alita49DS]

Try Italy for the meaning of interaction with the locals if you want an insight into your being ripped off on the one hand and the supplier ripping off the state on the other.

Want to test that proposition? Just ask for a receipt with a VAT number having offered to pay by bank transfer and see what happens to the already exorbitant tab.

[jmschmidt]

“That’s a load of Commie bull Mr. President.” - Gen. Buck Turdgeson played by George C. Scott in the movie “Dr. Strangelove”

These locals are not being held hostage at gun point and forced to give a bowl of rice, a fish or their daughters up to the invading haole cruising hordes. This is a free market, free enterprise transaction with both parties benefiting to the extent that they are happy with. Next time offer them a new BMW or something they have no use for just to make yourself feel good.

If a cruiser feels like throwing in a little extra, as I am sure most cruisers do, that too is a free decision. A few times I've caught fish and given all or part of it to the locals for nothing in return.

I suppose you are going to say the fish was old and spoiled and that's the only reason I gave it away.