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Old 08-10-2014, 18:06   #61
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

Cut to the chase. Someone who is showing symptoms takes the MTA to get to a hospital in Manhattan, turns out they actually have Ebola. How many people had "contact" with that person?

People are gonna freak out. Then you're gonna see what panic looks like.

It's already jumped continents and crossed oceans. Basically anyone who's business it is to know is saying it won't be contained, because obviously it hasn't been.

BTW, I noticed Saudi Arabia has declared this years Hajj to be Ebola free and they credit the fact that they did not grant travel visas to anyone from the affected countries. Go figure.
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Old 08-10-2014, 18:21   #62
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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Cut to the chase. Someone who is showing symptoms takes the MTA to get to a hospital in Manhattan, turns out they actually have Ebola. How many people had "contact" with that person?

People are gonna freak out. Then you're gonna see what panic looks like.

It's already jumped continents and crossed oceans. Basically anyone who's business it is to know is saying it won't be contained, because obviously it hasn't been.

BTW, I noticed Saudi Arabia has declared this years Hajj to be Ebola free and they credit the fact that they did not grant travel visas to anyone from the affected countries. Go figure.
i think it was Orson wells who said "we should send sick people to prison and put criminals in hospital" in his novel 1984........the time is coming soon
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Old 08-10-2014, 18:39   #63
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

boatman, you've got to quote things in context. The Official Word was that you needed fluid contact--then. The Official Word has now changed, and "fluid" is being redefined to include things like six hour old spittle and possibly sweat. Direct contact no longer certain to be required.

So before anyone else thinks of it, I'm gonna get Versace and a batch of couture labels to design moon suits, and corner the market on fashionable protective garments. With a second budget line for the frequent fliers like Atoll, who want something a little more practical to wear while on those business trips.

Taking pre-orders on Kickstarter now, limit of 50 per customer per order, enough for twice the normal incubation period.
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Old 08-10-2014, 19:12   #64
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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boatman, you've got to quote things in context. The Official Word was that you needed fluid contact--then. The Official Word has now changed, and "fluid" is being redefined to include things like six hour old spittle and possibly sweat. Direct contact no longer certain to be required.

So before anyone else thinks of it, I'm gonna get Versace and a batch of couture labels to design moon suits, and corner the market on fashionable protective garments. With a second budget line for the frequent fliers like Atoll, who want something a little more practical to wear while on those business trips.

Taking pre-orders on Kickstarter now, limit of 50 per customer per order, enough for twice the normal incubation period.
i'm a Tyvek man myself.....actually "onesies" are all the rage these days in the uk....though might cause a bit of a stir next week at Heathrow boarding my flight in a one piece white suit ,grinding goggles and mask
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Old 08-10-2014, 19:17   #65
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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i think it was Orson wells who said "we should send sick people to prison and put criminals in hospital" in his novel 1984........the time is coming soon
brain fart!
twas george orwell,either in his novel "animal farm" or "1984",orson wells made the film me finks!
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Old 08-10-2014, 19:34   #66
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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And Dan- I am aware of those studies. Ebola has been transmitted by air in the lab, but no documented transmission by air in the wild.
I don't think people should panic but the way the local press is down playing Ebola, and frankly, downright lying is disturbing. Course the US Government has done nothing since this outbreak started in March to help out the African countries either. When I read and hear public officials state with great certainty, about issues where there is no such certainty, that too is disturbing.

We have evidence that Ebola spread by air. All evidence says the Ebola was spread that way in the lab. For officials to say with certainty that Ebola does not spread by air is wrong. There is no way to prove that Ebola is transmitted by air because the countries suffering with the virus don't have the ability to take care of the sick, much less, conduct studies. The air transmission issue is also splitting hairs since Ebola is spread by bodily fluids that can be sneezed or coughed.

The fact is we do not really know what is happening in Africa. Ebola in the current out break could be spread by air but there is no way to really know. There are no health care providers to speak of in the affected areas, and the ones that are left, are overrun with cases. They can barely survive much less conduct studies on Ebola transmission. The numbers of affected and dead are wild guesses, and given the situation, the numbers have to be very low.

The CDC says about Ebola:
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Body fluids include saliva, mucus, vomit, feces, sweat, tears, breast milk, urine, and semen.
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Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.
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Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 to 21 days after exposure to Ebola, but the average is 8 to 10 days.
We know that at least two people wearing protective gear have gotten Ebola which shows the virus can infect people easily and quickly. The photographer that is infected said he was splashed with something and that is all it took for him to get sick. That is a very easy and fast transmission.

People have done tests on what is in the fabric in movie theater seats. Guess what, poo and pee. If that poo and pee is infected with an illness...

I have a government mandated OSHA class about blood borne pathogens that I have to take each year and which I will be taking this month. It is drilled into us to stay away from blood. Period. And they ain't worried about Ebola. It will be interesting to see if the class has been updated to talk about Ebola. When the worry was about Swine Flu a few years ago we had additional classes to cover the possibilities of a wide spread outbreak. If we don't cover Ebola I will be shocked and wondering why since Ebola is a far more dangerous virus than Swine Flu.

This situation should not be hyped but it certainly is dangerous and I see the problem being down played.

Later,
Dan
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Old 08-10-2014, 20:02   #67
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

Orwell. 1984. My brain connected the dots.

I don't own a TV or watch Fox News. My brain read The Hot Zone by Richard Preston in 1995 when it was first published, back when I used to read a LOT of books.

Listen to what newt is saying. Connect the dots.
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Old 08-10-2014, 20:33   #68
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

Here's a dot. The repatriated NBC newsman, the one that they sent to Nebraska to get treated, out in the middle of nowhere, about as far away from anywhere but still be in the continental US. That guy.

Do you think they sent him to Out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere, USA because they have "Top Notch Guys" in Nebraska?

I thought most of the top notch guys were in Maryland but maybe I'm mistaken.

Or maybe they sent him to Nebraska because it's, you know, out in the middle of nowhere. Away from the top notch guys?

Now what was newt saying about isolation?

Connect the dots.
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Old 08-10-2014, 20:48   #69
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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... mercy killing is the best option.. followed by incineration...
Where are the Nazis when you need em?
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Old 08-10-2014, 20:48   #70
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

Not so funny thing, is that ebola is considered a Category 4 biohazard. The protocols for handling Cat4 materials and cases are the most extreme published, requiring full moonsuits with pressurized air supply--not just coveralls. Coveralls might do it for Cat3, but they are deemed insufficient for Cat4. There are very few biosafety level 4 labs in the world. Maybe 16 in the US, including the military ones. And somehow we're told that five special clinics, good enough to harbor and treat the ebola victoms in the US, have magically sprung up?

And then there's the nooze video from all over? Right, folks in painter's coveralls, basically. Apparently the Fog of War set in fast and early in the medical community. I'd have a lot more faith in the people in charge if they'd stop playing psychological games and simply say "We don't know yet" when that applies.

Tonight I saw part of a nooze forecast from the CDC's "social media" response room. Unless I heard it wrong, someone at CDC replied to a tweet saying that mosquitos COULD spread the virus. Does the fog ever end??
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Old 08-10-2014, 20:51   #71
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

The Hot Zone is a good book. I read it several years latter. But it has stuck with me.

This thing about animals (dogs, pugs, bats, what else?) bothers me. Living in the city once this stuff gets loose, how could you trust any dog? How could you kill every dog?

Also the idea of suppression through isolation. How do you isolate Manhattan, Chicgo, D.C.?

Newts comments about water and isolation make sense. But living in a center city area, how do you effect it?

We have contingency plans for this sort of thing, but they are not implemented without major and permanent changes to our lives.
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Old 08-10-2014, 21:02   #72
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

"But living in a center city area, how do you effect it?"
This is the reason quietly given for the massive psyops that are passed off as "news". There's a fairly large amount of possibly valid concern that if the truth was given out, there would be massive panic, and that's never a good or useful thing. For epidemics or any other "civil defense" situation.

But Manhattan is easy to secure. The water comes in by gravity flow from upstate, only the taller buildings need pumps to bring it up above roughly six stories. Isolation? Like in any Irwin Allen movie. There are only so many bridges and tunnels, and securing them is pretty much a trivial task. The tunnels that flooded during TS Sandy were easily closed by flooding. The bridges? Not so many. The streets? dirty word, martial law. But of course there's really no place to run TO, is there?

I don't think we have to worry about that at all. Unless the Jihadis or some other unhappy sect grab the opportunity. Unthinkable? Impossible? Right, that's what so many "wise" men said before 9/11, isn't it?

Repeat after me: "Its only a movie. Its only a movie."
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Old 08-10-2014, 21:21   #73
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

Basically, within hours of the collapse of the North Tower on 9/11 Manhattan was closed off and remained so for at least a week (?) I was living in Williamsburg at the time but had gone into the city early for work that day.

Ended up sleeping on a friend's couch in the city for a week. Could have left to go home to Brooklyn but wouldn't have been permitted to return without an ID with a Manhattan address so figured I'd keep my options open and sleep on the couch. We weren't really sure what was going to happen at the time.

Rode my bike across the bridge everyday for at least a month afterwards past a bunch guys with rifles and another guy with a pistol on his belt standing next to a HUMVEE. That was thirteen years ago.

Nowadays, it's not a bunch of guys with rifles and a guy with a pistol. They all have rifles. And they all have pistols. See em at train stations mostly, but really if you pay attention you see them all over. That's what's normal now.
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Old 08-10-2014, 21:56   #74
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

From listening to some people, I would think Fox News is more dangerous than Ebola. Funny how people grab onto the latest taking point as if it makes you appear smarter that you don't watch Fox News but only watch NPR or CNN or bla bla bla. The "Experts" in the Government told us not to worry about ISIS yet someone on Fox News told us over two years ago about the coming Caliphate, that our "to protect and serve" Government didn't see coming (or did they and just not tell us). If you are looking to the experts in Government to keep you safe...all they will do is keep you from panicking until it's too late. That is the History of what Governments do in a crisis folks...learn from History or repeat it.

Now...off to the boat show">Annapolis Boat Show tomorrow to shake thousands of hands over the next 5 days...****.
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Old 08-10-2014, 22:51   #75
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Re: The Future of Cruising Post-Outbreak

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