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Old 14-04-2014, 14:26   #106
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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LMAO. Do you really think that anybody who sails in the manner I described files a float plan? Without a float plan nobody's going to report anyone overdue. Overdue from where?

I once read a self help book titled "How to live free in an unfree world". The worthwhile advice could be distilled to one sentence - Keep a low profile.
Otherwise you end up being discussed by the entire world. Ask RH.

The point of my posts was to show how some individuals were dealing with the world they live in, not to show how the world deals with them.

If there that " quiet" how do we know they even exist.

There are always loved ones waiting for a sailor. They are the ones to raise the alarm usually. Everyone has a mommy !

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Old 14-04-2014, 14:31   #107
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The Evolution of Cruisers

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Never meant this to be a pissing contest between old and new but more about changes we have observed like Ann saying that rowing tenders were popular before.

Tighter Time management on passage planing is another development that we have taken onboard.

I miss the old excuses of unknown weather predictions and cocked hat navigation to be able to tell guests that..."we get there when we get there"

Our expectations are so much higher these days that I wonder if that has cost us some humility

Rowing tenders was popular , cause it was all people could afford or OBs were unreliable. Today OBs are cheap compared to personal income levels. Hence , you have one as does the boat boy and the head hunters up the amazon.

Equally the advent of RIBs and inflatables and their obvious advantages, one of which is not their ability to be propelled by oars

It's not cruisers changing , it's just stuff getting cheaper to make

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Old 14-04-2014, 15:24   #108
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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...
It's not cruisers changing , it's just stuff getting cheaper to make

Dave

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Good point as we know the advent of fiberglass boats opened up a cruising lifestyle to lower income levels.
So does that not mean that the "club" went from..... If you have to ask...you cannot' afford it"... To...How Much?
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Old 14-04-2014, 15:39   #109
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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...
I'm just blowing smoke, but I wonder if the diminishment of real freedom is the most important change that has happened over the years.
interesting post Mike and I agree that with increased popularity had come increased regulations

Also does a cruisers higher awareness of social risks and conditions mean that we now willingly follow those rules thus somehow dilute the experience?
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Old 14-04-2014, 15:53   #110
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Good point as we know the advent of fiberglass boats opened up a cruising lifestyle to lower income levels.
So does that not mean that the "club" went from..... If you have to ask...you cannot' afford it"... To...How Much?
This might be the evolution of cruising, yet I don't think it's the case these days. Newer boats most certainly -- mass production or not. Older boats, when you look at the storage and maintenance costs, and take into account todays lifestyle needs (retirement, taxes, healthcare, housing, education etc), boating is more removed from the average citizen. Used to be boats might be considered a vacation home. Remember those? People had em. I don't know anyone with a vacation home. There isn't that much disposable income anymore for any of this.

I'd say its dying if anything. Look at the boat market.
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Old 14-04-2014, 16:29   #111
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Greatly enjoying this thread.

The more philosophical posts are some of the most thought provoking I've struck on this forum for a while, but everything I've read has sparked some reflection or insight, or a chuckle.
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Old 14-04-2014, 16:35   #112
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I don't know how I forgot perhaps the most important distinction between being in a sys admin role ashore and afloat

In addition to these limitations of doing it afloat:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
.... the office moves around more, it's further to the suppliers, there's no broadband, and the frigging courier vans never make calls.
there's this:

far from someone paying ME to do it, I have to pay every other bugger.

Sheesh !
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Old 14-04-2014, 17:03   #113
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I am no luddite! I accept much technology that advances my capability to navigate safely, but I am selective. I post here with my free wi-fi access from unsecured public or unsecured routers. I don't use any marine devices that require a contract or contact with a service provider. Everything that I do use is independant and I provide the only interface between the function of one device and another. Every now and then I lose access to this site and everything online, but I'm not troubled. I usually call for my mail once a month. My daughter usually knows where we are. In 1980 we had a census questionnaire dropped into our dinghy that was left at a dock while we were away. My present location is not on anyone's screen or rolodex. I'm not trying to hide out, but we are independant and you would need to know me well to find me!
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Old 14-04-2014, 17:32   #114
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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....

On another note- Touching the Void- best ever survival movie based on real life (the dvd interviews were amazing)....
Haven't seen the DVD or the interviews, but Simon (the guy who had to cut the rope) passed through here a few years back, and it was great being able to ask him about it.

He had got in with a crowd who were the epitome of doing more with less.

They were seriously old-school, in some ways, reminding me of John Muir, whose equipment and provisions list for the wilds of Alaska seemed to be limited to a rope, a sack of flour and a small dog.

Simon's mates didn't carry water bottles, even days from civilisation in the Andes - where there were no surface streams, they'd carry a drinking straw, and leaving early, get the odd sip of water on the way to the mountain from condensation in hollows on top of rocks they passed.

They'd climb in lightweight footwear like Messner, foregoing the usual heavy racks of protection in favour of getting up and back, in a short weather window, before they had time to even get hungry. And moving fast they didn't get cold (or at least, not that they'd let on).

I've ski-mountaineered with a few guys like that, generally Finnish influenced as it happens. Felt like a sailboat being taken in tow by a naval patrol vessel: their minimum speed to maintain steerage way (ie body temp) was at or above my hull speed.

The tie-in to Messner reminds me: his base camp and support party for soloing Everest consisted of one tent and one girlfriend, IIRC. Comms? Zero. Oxygen? None.

... but it occurs to me that well before then, people like Yvon Chouinard were already starting to react against reliance on technical aids

which I always thought was an inspirational example of integrity and adherence to principle, given that he had invented many of those aids, and made a decent living from their manufacture.

So it does seem that, in the climbing discipline, there's a more keen sense of what can be lost by going with the flow of changing norms, which in turn are driven essentially by commercial imperatives.
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Old 14-04-2014, 18:19   #115
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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This might be the evolution of cruising, yet I don't think it's the case these days. Newer boats most certainly -- mass production or not. Older boats, when you look at the storage and maintenance costs, and take into account todays lifestyle needs (retirement, taxes, healthcare, housing, education etc), boating is more removed from the average citizen. Used to be boats might be considered a vacation home. Remember those? People had em. I don't know anyone with a vacation home. There isn't that much disposable income anymore for any of this.

I'd say its dying if anything. Look at the boat market.
I wonder if these trends go in relatively short term cycles and the boat market is mostly overstocked because of income uncertainty and mounting debts ?

For many new cruisers today.... It seems to be a strong commitment/desire to make it an Alternative Lifestyle rather than a nautical adventure.

Will the Ocean become the new Walden Pond?
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Old 14-04-2014, 18:34   #116
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Well, some interesting comments. Many of the international cruisers I have met were certainly no lifetime sailing enthusiasts. Some were barely competent. As others have said, some could not have gone without electronics. Others could. I was/am often surprised by the things on other boats that the owners could not fix. The comment about engineers being no good at sailing I really disagree with - Russel Coutts is just on example of a top sailor and a mechanical engineer. There are many. There is almost nothing on my boat that I cannot fix, given suitable parts/materials.
Personally, I've sailed my whole life and started in dinghies before moving to larger boats with just a compass. I learned sextant navigation, and got my ocean yachtmasters ticket years ago. I still carry tables and a sextant. Haven't used it for years, and I'm rusty. I like gadgets, and I have a lot of electronics on the boat, but if they all failed (unlikely) I'd still get home. Without the sextant it would be slower, and finding small islands - like in the pacific (or at least the right Island!) probably impossible. No Pole star here....
Cruisers are changing, along with the world. Not better, not worse, just using the tools of their era.
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Old 14-04-2014, 18:37   #117
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Greatly enjoying this thread.

The more philosophical posts are some of the most thought provoking I've struck on this forum for a while, but everything I've read has sparked some reflection or insight, or a chuckle.
Me to.... There are some great minds on board who's insights help to paint a much better picture.

One (somewhat selfserving) quote from a famous yacht designer is:

"When an owner looks over the perfection of his chosen yacht towards an unbroken horizon.... He is inspired to greater things in his life."
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Old 14-04-2014, 18:40   #118
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1518775]----
If there that " quiet" how do we know they even exist.
---QUOTE]

Hurray Dave! You're catching on!

On a more somber note, not everybody has living parents. Or, for that matter, living relatives. One of the failings of internet communication is that we tend to project our own life situation upon other people.
T'aint necessarily so.
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Old 14-04-2014, 19:08   #119
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Yesterday cruisers wanted 30-32 feet or so, full keel westsail, dreadnaught etc and simple systems. Well... simple was all that was available really. Think bean sprouts, granola and hemp. haha
Let's see..when I sailed to Mexico I had two car batteries, a VHF, a Sat Nav that didnt work, a 2hp evinrude for the dink, and a coldmachine we only ran when the engine was on. Oil interior light and oil anchor light. hank on headsails, manual windlass, 30 footer. Just as much fun as we ever had.
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Old 14-04-2014, 19:16   #120
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Yesterday cruisers wanted 30-32 feet or so, full keel westsail, dreadnaught etc and simple systems. Well... simple was all that was available really. Think bean sprouts, granola and hemp. haha
Let's see..when I sailed to Mexico I had two car batteries, a VHF, a Sat Nav that didnt work, a 2hp evinrude for the dink, and a coldmachine we only ran when the engine was on. Oil interior light and oil anchor light. hank on headsails, manual windlass, 30 footer. Just as much fun as we ever had.
you had a cold machine??? My GOD! You call yourself a sailor??
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